4X3,letterbox or 16X9

[cjucoder]

I love that Jimboy's on this forum :wave:  Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?  The protocol writers add the AFDs and bit flags, and meanwhile the hardware designers are writing their firmware, and both evolve on parallel courses.

Do people with 4X3 sets want to see their content cropped anymore than 16X9 people?  I dunno.

Personally, I would never crop or stretch to fill a screen, but I could understand people with sets subject to burn-in that would decide to do so.  Maybe some people flat out just want to and/or like it better. Why would I care?  Let the consumer decide, and make both protocol and firmware bow to that master.

[StarvingForHDTV]

What about the widescreen SD or ED PBS feeds or programming that are not carried on the PBS HD channel?  I guess I do not understand all the technical aspects of this.  All I know is that there have been compaints here about our local PBS stations not passing through the SD/ED PBS widescreen programming on our non HD channel.  I've checked this for myself by going directly to the PBS feeds on AMC-3 and found the same program running concurently on satellite in SD widescreen whose quality was very impresive and only to have 4x3 letter boxed on our local OTA PBS channel.  Rather disapointing.

I have communicated with both the PBS network and MPTV about airing WS Frontline episodes on 36-1.  They are both trying to make it happen.

[tazman]

I have communicated with both the PBS network and MPTV about airing WS Frontline episodes on 36-1.  They are both trying to make it happen.

I guess more than anything I was just stating my observation.  What actually can made to be done about it I guess is another matter.  I thank Jimboy for going to the trouble of posting the technical stuff, but I'm not going to kid anyone in saying that I understand all of it.  I wasn't looking for the widescreen SD programming to be widescreen on the HD 36-1 channel but rather it be 16x9 widescreen on one of the SD 10-1 through 10-4 channels just like it is on satellite.  The direct satellite feed SD channel gives me full 16x9 widescreen on a channel that is normaly 4x3 and is not cropped or letter boxed in any way.  I guess I was wondering why MPTV does not pass that through on their SD channels the same thing.  Obviously it's a technical issue I'll probably won't comprehend.  Or a compatibility issue with the older 4x3 sets.  I also wonder when they will pass the dolby 5.1 on the HD 36-1 channel.  I end up switching to the direct satellite feed during Sound Stage and Austin City Limits to enjoy the 5.1.

[StarvingForHDTV]

I must have misunderstood you tazman.  Sorry.  It sounds like the satellite feed is the way to go.

[4runnergusto]

I didn't read everyone, but hopefully someone has already said the simple answer. It should all be 16x9 High def. Period. Don't screw around with anything else. Just do it right from here on. We are all willing to make our financial investment on the deal, so why not those that make the programming.

Cheers,
Mark

[beeper]

I didn't read everyone, but hopefully someone has already said the simple answer. It should all be 16x9 High def. Period. Cheers,
Mark

Unfortunately it isn't that simple unless you don't ever intend on watching a 4:3 SD rerun ever again.

Stretching and/or cropping a 4:3 to fit a 16:9 and converting SD reruns to HD isn't the plan.

Beeper

[GBK]

Frankly I don't now and don't intend in the future to watch a non animated 4x3 show ever again.  Stretching the Simpsons doesn't make them look any worse all other 4x3 shows can disappear from the tv forever.

[Joseph S]

Frankly I don't now and don't intend in the future to watch a non animated 4x3 show ever again. Stretching the Simpsons doesn't make them look any worse all other 4x3 shows can disappear from the tv forever.

Some of us do intend to watch 4:3 as it has been the AR for shows for decades worth of programming. The stretching is something that makes the shows unwatchable as in the worthless TNTHD. If you're watching on anything larger than a 2" screen the stretching is very obvious and distracting.

[beeper]

Frankly I don't now and don't intend in the future to watch a non animated 4x3 show ever again.

So you aren't currently watching any local news broadcasts?
They are all 4:3.

beeper

[GBK]

So you aren't currently watching any local news broadcasts?
They are all 4:3.

beeper

Well Yes/No :-)  I do have a 4x3 tv... but I do not watch anything in 4x3 on my main tv which in turn limits my viewing of 4x3 programming to news and only the morning show. I find the news rather not news worthy... but that's a different discussion. I do watch national Fox Sunday show in 16x9 and I will watch any special programming for example I did watch the Pope funeral etc.

btw I'm not trying to be mean, I understand that there are people out there that watch and will continue to watch 4x3.. but the fact remains HD can be produced of of the orignal.. I've seen movies remastered in Hd off the film they were recorded on I'm not holding my breath for all the old stuff to get remastered but I do intend to press the issue that all new programming starting now should be produced in at least widescreen if not HD (Wide) :-)

[Joseph S]

I've seen movies remastered in Hd off the film they were recorded on I'm not holding my breath for all the old stuff to get remastered but I do intend to press the issue that all new programming starting now should be produced in at least widescreen if not HD (Wide) :-)

All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares. You simply cannot "remaster" 4:3 programming into 16:9 without either cropping huge chunks or stretching to absurd limits.

[GBK]

that only applies to tv shows which let's get serious who cares. If someone haven't seen all the episodes of sinfeld, taxi, friends and all the other shows that's just too bad... I'm not saying you can't broadcast those ever again, all I'm saying is I personally don't care to watch them again because they are not filling my screen properly.  I don't want them to stretch it or change it in any way I just don't want to see it that way.  On the other hand some of the Frasier, Becker was HD they should broadcast those in HD instead of a copy they keep who knows where until they're ready to show it again.  The original already is HD.  Any Widescreen shot movie can be remastered into HD; film has a lot more data then you give it credit I've seen some fairly nice transfers of 50's 60's movies in HD.

[Joseph S]

that only applies to tv shows which let's get serious who cares.

1) No, it applies to far more than tv shows. Many movies were shot in 4:3 and many are still shot in 4:3.
2) Millions of people care a lot. So will those that haven't been born yet.

Any Widescreen shot movie can be remastered into HD

and

film has a lot more data then you give it credit I've seen some fairly nice transfers or 50's 60's movies in HD.

Not all rectangles are the same size. Remastering has nothing to do with changing the shape of materials.

[GBK]

you can't sit on both sides of the fence.  you either want to see stuff in 4x3 or 16x9.  my position is obviously clear .  I find 4x3 to be in the same space at this point as Black and White.  no one says you can't create it and watch it... what I want is native format if it was shot is HD I want HD if it was shot in Widescreen I want widescreen not letterboxed.  If it's in 4x3 I'm not watching it. Period.  the discussion has now grown pointless.

[Joseph S]

you can't sit on both sides of the fence. you either want to see stuff in 4x3 or 16x9.

There are no two sides of the fence as you describe. I want to see 4:3 in 4:3, 1.78:1 in 1.78:1, 1.85:1 in 1:85:1, and 2.35:1 in 2:35:1 and so on. There is only "butchered" or "not-butchered." You are indicating a desire to watch "butchered" if it doesn't fit your screen as in the case of Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, ... and no 4:3 at all. I and others would like to see "non-butchered" no matter what shape my screen is now or in the future.