Advice before I switch to Digital Cable

[gparris]

borghe : "all I will say to this is don't kid yourself... it ain't anywhere near a Tivo. You get what you pay for."

Yes, you are right, the TWC does not do what you want it to do, but for my family, the ability to watch HD recorded material time-shifted to when we want to watch it is sufficient for us...emphasis on OUR family.  
We didn't feel the expense and hacking was worth it.
We just plugged in each  HD DVR after connecting it to the cable outlet and let it boot up. Then only concern was getting our shows to record and unlike Tivo, we couldn't spell them out, only scan through a week and "anchor" show(s) that we wanted to record every week...not impossible, just a few more minutes to do and no phone line needed....worked for us, thank you.
But thanks for the reminder, I know how much you enjoy your HD Tivo and you should, borghe!

[PWFD81]

as I stated in another thread:

I switched to TWC from DTV for about 8 hours. Then back to DTV. Channels 1-100 looked like crap. The TWC DVR was not even close to DTV Tivo as far as features (which I didn't think I used until they were gone). Then within those 8 hours the HD-DVR lost all sound on any channel above 100 and the standard HD box which was used and abused before me (not a fan of used stuff) stopped working too. I was also unable to get the INHD channels with out drop out in picture and sound.

Thank god I didn't stop service with DTV. I just switched inputs and I was able to watch TV again.

TWC just isn't quite there yet. I think they are close but the quality of the DVR and boxes is very poor and of course the analog thing is BAD!

T

[borghe]

eh, I came of as obnoxious, but here is my problem....

DVRs are capable of SOOOOO much more, as Tivo and wonderful Tivo hacking community have already shown. HMO, folders, TivoToGo, remote web programming, RSS feeds, automated emails, networked conflict resolution, wireless networking, external storage, etc. Yet how many of those things have ANYONE BUT TIVO worked to include let alone advance? The big fat goose egg. None.

Tivo has been out for 6 years now, and aside from Tivo, virtually ever DVR is actually a step BACKWARDS. Tivo debuted with actor/director lookup, granular preferences and suggestions, advanced season pass management, and so forth, and in every crop of new DVRs it is all thrown out. What do we have in non-Tivo DVRs now? Season passes, no searching of any real kind, and absolutely no networking. The closest we will even have to networking from cable is RF modulation of picture and sound and rebroadcast over cable lines to satellite boxes...

So yes I am bitter. And with every new DVR subscription on TWC it perpetuates. Someone goes from no DVR to an SA8000(HD) and thinks it's the greatest thing in the world. When they are shown the advantages of a true DVR they respond with "Well, this is good enough for me." And of course it will be YEARS before cable breaks even on each DVR (especially HD DVR) so cable isn't in a hurry to have SA or Motorola develop newer boxes. and the customers are satisfied because they don't know any better. So the development of new technologies stagnates and we all lose out.

I will say this. In light of recent developments at DirecTV as well, I predict that eventually I will be a TWC customer again.. sigh... only this time it will be when Tivo releases their CableCard solution (which will hopefully be multi-stream compatible).. $13/month per box, even if the box is $600 a pop, is a small price to pay to not have to deal with the future of over glorified VCRs, or at best over glorified VCRs that can tranfer shows from room to room.

The cable companies (including DirecTV) can all go **^%^Y &*%^$$ ^%$# for stunting technology in the name of "protecting their services." Well gee.. maybe if it didn't cost $100 these days to get every channel from the service, of which 200 of them I never even watch but I can't carry a lower package or I will lose out on channels I do watch, then they wouldn't have to worry about people digitally extracting shows and posting them on the internet making their services irrelevent. Do they really THINK I like to wait hours on end to watch a show rather than just record it for free over the service? No, it's because to record the newest CSI in HD I am practically forced to pay $55/month before taxes and franchise fees. Say an episode of Sopranos instead and we are up to like $65+ per month. TO RECORD ONE SHOW! And they wonder why people are so eager to trade shows over the internet.

But their answer is to stunt the technology. Make it so that searching, recording, and transferring it are as painful or impossible as possible and that way we will never realize the products' full potential......

anyway, rant is turned off now... glad you guys like your TWC DVR. I know I would have a near impossible time giving up my HD Tivo in its current state (or getting my wife to give it up for that matter). I also know that I am not at all impressed with DirecTV's upcoming solution knowing it is based on the horrible XTV platform (re: probably good enough for those who have only used the SA8000HD). I guess I just wait until next January when Tivo releases its cablecard solution or hope that in the meantime another company actually grows some balls to defy cable and actually gives an alternative to Tivo with all the same capabilities.

Just depressed that after 6 years the best DVR the cable companies are willing to give us is one that you can search through a list of shows to record by name only and maybe some time this year finally get RF redistributed shows to other rooms... 6 years and that's the most they are willing to offer.... you have to love deregulation :\

[mhz40]

eh, I came of as obnoxious, but here is my problem....

DVRs are capable of SOOOOO much more, as Tivo and wonderful Tivo hacking community have already shown. HMO, folders, TivoToGo, remote web programming, RSS feeds, automated emails, networked conflict resolution, wireless networking, external storage, etc. Yet how many of those things have ANYONE BUT TIVO worked to include let alone advance? The big fat goose egg. None.

Tivo has been out for 6 years now, and aside from Tivo, virtually ever DVR is actually a step BACKWARDS. Tivo debuted with actor/director lookup, granular preferences and suggestions, advanced season pass management, and so forth, and in every crop of new DVRs it is all thrown out. What do we have in non-Tivo DVRs now? Season passes, no searching of any real kind, and absolutely no networking. The closest we will even have to networking from cable is RF modulation of picture and sound and rebroadcast over cable lines to satellite boxes...

So yes I am bitter. And with every new DVR subscription on TWC it perpetuates. Someone goes from no DVR to an SA8000(HD) and thinks it's the greatest thing in the world. When they are shown the advantages of a true DVR they respond with "Well, this is good enough for me." And of course it will be YEARS before cable breaks even on each DVR (especially HD DVR) so cable isn't in a hurry to have SA or Motorola develop newer boxes. and the customers are satisfied because they don't know any better. So the development of new technologies stagnates and we all lose out.

I will say this. In light of recent developments at DirecTV as well, I predict that eventually I will be a TWC customer again.. sigh... only this time it will be when Tivo releases their CableCard solution (which will hopefully be multi-stream compatible).. $13/month per box, even if the box is $600 a pop, is a small price to pay to not have to deal with the future of over glorified VCRs, or at best over glorified VCRs that can tranfer shows from room to room.

The cable companies (including DirecTV) can all go **^%^Y &*%^$$ ^%$# for stunting technology in the name of "protecting their services." Well gee.. maybe if it didn't cost $100 these days to get every channel from the service, of which 200 of them I never even watch but I can't carry a lower package or I will lose out on channels I do watch, then they wouldn't have to worry about people digitally extracting shows and posting them on the internet making their services irrelevent. Do they really THINK I like to wait hours on end to watch a show rather than just record it for free over the service? No, it's because to record the newest CSI in HD I am practically forced to pay $55/month before taxes and franchise fees. Say an episode of Sopranos instead and we are up to like $65+ per month. TO RECORD ONE SHOW! And they wonder why people are so eager to trade shows over the internet.

But their answer is to stunt the technology. Make it so that searching, recording, and transferring it are as painful or impossible as possible and that way we will never realize the products' full potential......

anyway, rant is turned off now... glad you guys like your TWC DVR. I know I would have a near impossible time giving up my HD Tivo in its current state (or getting my wife to give it up for that matter). I also know that I am not at all impressed with DirecTV's upcoming solution knowing it is based on the horrible XTV platform (re: probably good enough for those who have only used the SA8000HD). I guess I just wait until next January when Tivo releases its cablecard solution or hope that in the meantime another company actually grows some balls to defy cable and actually gives an alternative to Tivo with all the same capabilities.

Just depressed that after 6 years the best DVR the cable companies are willing to give us is one that you can search through a list of shows to record by name only and maybe some time this year finally get RF redistributed shows to other rooms... 6 years and that's the most they are willing to offer.... you have to love deregulation :\

Wow... "bitter" AND "depressed"?  That one post alone should have saved you hundreds of bucks in therapy!  

Anyway... I have to imagine Tivo has some copyrights on any/all of the functionality you mentioned.  Besides, not everyone needs or desires all that hacker overhead and web stuff.  Remote web programming?  Yikes!  Emails?  God knows I don't need any more email!!

In fact, IMO, the hacker community is part of Tivo's (the company's) problem.  They can't make a profit and (again IMO) may soon be aquired.

These "%^&*()*" companies have a business relationship with the product providers as well as their customers.  Both need to be happy and the companies are riding the fence to do that... especially in the internet world, where Tivo'd files could be offered with wild abandon ala the music days of Napster; circumventing the owners of the programming's right to distribute their property.
 
All I want to do is record something I can't be home for, or record a series program all season for later viewing...  then watch it and delete it.  For now, the DVR works for that... in both the SD & HD environment.  Soon, there will be multi-room DVR so you can access the unit from any room in the house with a standard set top.

[StarvingForHDTV]

All I want to do is record something I can't be home for, or record a series program all season for later viewing...  then watch it and delete it.

That's reasonable, and probably right in line with most people's wishes.  Anything beyond that is probably for "enthusiasts" in my opinion.  Now, make one for OTA HD, sell it for a reasonable price, and you will have your first customer right here.......

[jkane]

Saying you don't need a real DVR that does actual recording of what you want when you want instead of just basic capabilites like a VCR, is akin to saying that SDTV is good enough!

I can't believe this settling for less than the best is so rampant in an HDTV forum!    :confused:

[borghe]

Saying you don't need a real DVR that does actual recording of what you want when you want instead of just basic capabilites like a VCR, is akin to saying that SDTV is good enough!

I can't believe this settling for less than the best is so rampant in an HDTV forum!    :confused:

thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you (you get the point).

Exactly!!!!!! I would still imagine that to this day everyone on this board is an enthusiast. The cheapest HDTVs are STILL over $700 generally and cable and satellite are still charging extra for many HD channels. While HD is certainly coming very close to mainstream adoption, it isn't quite there yet and certainly no one on here I feel it is safe to say is a mainstream "joe sixpack" consumer.

So I agree, it is silly to see people who argue differences between 720p and 1080i or  discuss the visual difference betwen a 16Mbps video stream and a 12Mbps video stream or hooking their box up through DVI, to see people say "recording like a VCR with season passes and live pausing is good enough for me," especially when obvious alternatives already exist.

That reminds me of Bill Gates saying that 640KB was more memory than anyone will ever need... Or the head of Corel (at the time) saying that we would never need a faster desktop CPU than 100Mhz.

Anyways, I already said my piece.. You can choose to disagree with it or not. To me the concept of a VCR on a hard drive is insanely archaic. I can go on my PC and download the most recent episodes for virtually any show. can go and download entire seasons at a time. I can look up to see who starred in what show, what other shows they starred in, and if they starred in shows with other people. I can see what a movie's box office gross was, how many nominations and awards it received, and get links to trailers and merchandise for it. I can use a system that takes my interests and past decisions and runs formulas to come up with what it thinks I might enjoy. The first company that combines all of this stuff together into one unit (which looks to be Tivo) will reap ALL the rewards...

and to mhz40, I disagree that they have to work with the content providers on what features and whatnot to use. there should, IMHO be NO relationship between the hardware providers and programming providers. Your company provides programming, but who I get my box from and what my box does should really have no direct relationship with the content you provide. As long as it is able to work with the signal and work with the reasonable copy protection desired by the operator, I should be able to have a box that does whatever I WANT IT TO, with your signal. If I want to digitally export Sopranos (DRM'ed of course) to an HD-DVD, that should be my right, whether TWC wants me to or not (of course whether HBO wants me to or not is an entirely different story). You provide a signal, and with OpenCable there is no reason that hardware providers should have to work with TWC to design a box that TWC designs AND NOTHING ELSE. I'm not saying tWC doesn't have a right to demand such and such a box for distribution and rental, but I am saying that hardware manufacturers should be able to build other boxes also, ones available to the end user and above and beyond what the cable company wants.

I have no question that what you are saying is right. The hackers have "hurt tivo", by making their products less attractive to cable operators. My point is that Tivo is learning something with OpenCable and CableCard. There is no reason to have to work with cable operators anymore. Bypass them entirely, make your own box, your own guide, and teach the user how to order PPV on the web (or include a web browser on the box itself that can be bookmarked with the PPV ordering page) and forget about what the cable company wants.

I realize you are employed by TWC so much of what I am saying here flies in the face of what your employer desires, but as you can see in my last two posts, I personally do not feel that the limitations desired by content providers (again, including DirecTV and others) is in the best interests of the consumers, even taking into account theft and cost increases and whatnot. I am not causing direcTV or Tivo any loss of money whatsoever with my hacks on my Tivo (nor do I condone service theft hacks). I don't see the desire to curb such usage or functionality further simply because it ruins plans for future profit generators (i.e. pay-VOD, etc).

[Mark Strube]

I would love for TiVo to strike a deal with TWC... their boxes are nicer and have loads more functionality (not to mention less bugs as well). And hey, when they start releasing models with cable card ability, I might just cancel my DVR service. But for now, FOR NOW, the DVR is the best option for many people, including myself. There's no need to bash the users of the service as expecting less. I know I'm not! I want it to take care of recording my shows for me, and in HD. And it does that! (With the occasional bug of course, but I've had a lot less problems with mine than others have.) Like you said, you get what you pay for... I don't have a grand to spend on an HD TiVo, so for what I'm paying for, it does exactly what I want. If it wasn't for the cable company offering this, I'd either have nothing, or be settling for an SD TiVo that doesn't directly interface with the cable box so it can't record 2 programs at once. And I believe that's the case with the majority of DVR users... they wouldn't have it otherwise. If you are a true 'enthusiast' you're going to go and buy the DirecTV or VOOM equipment and service along with that thousand-dollar HD TiVo anyways. I consider myself a bit of an enthusiast, but disliking satellite and on a budget.  

[sp44again]

I like how people keep saying thousand dollar HDTivo. You can get it for $850. You also if you are a D* subscriber get a $200 credit. Also if you had an HD receiver and SD Tivo already you can sell it and make up the cost. I did and HDTivo is awesome.  :rock:

[Mark Strube]

And then you add on all the other equipment costs (we would need at least 4 tv's connected) and the fact that to upgrade you'd have to rebuy it all again. No thanks.

[picopir8]

...And the fact that it will be obsolete come summer when D* switches to MPEG4.  And in our market there has been no upgrade commitment.

[sp44again]

...And the fact that it will be obsolete come summer when D* switches to MPEG4.  And in our market there has been no upgrade commitment.

Not fact. Let's not spread false info.

[sp44again]

And then you add on all the other equipment costs (we would need at least 4 tv's connected) and the fact that to upgrade you'd have to rebuy it all again. No thanks.

Who said anything about upgrading and then rebuying?

[Mark Strube]

This isn't too difficult to understand... in order to upgrade to new equipment (which one would want to do every couple of years or so), you must buy new equipment from DirecTV. With TWC, since it's rented, you just go in and exchange it for free.

Pleast don't turn this into a D* vs. TWC battle... each one caters to different peoples' needs, preferences, and budgets.

By the way, D* will be switching to MPEG4 soon... there's no word on whether the receivers will simply upgrade or if they'll have to buy new ones. Although, most believe that chances are they're going to have to buy new ones. The move to MPEG4 will happen slowly and finish sometime in late 2005 to early '06. They're already talking about possible class action lawsuits.

[sp44again]

Everybody keeps saying soon. Since when does D* or TWC doing anything quick! I'll be enjoying my HDTivo for another year easily. At that time D* can offer me to swap boxes for nothing. As far as upgrading their is a great little place called Ebay where I can sell my old equipment to recoup the cost of a new one.