Your thoughts on TWC's new HD feeds?

[Skipjack]

Now that TWC has had 4 & 12 up on HD broadcast for a week now. What are your thoughts on the quality?  I haven't been able to compare the signal to OTA and was wondering if anyone here has.

The reason I ask, is that from what I've seen... it hasn't been that great. Oh, it's better than analog, but the picture looks a little pixelated at times.. particularly during dimly lit panning scenes.  What am I seeing? Is this a product of TWC's compression?  Do I just have a crummy feed in my area?  

[gyoung]

I'm not able to compare it to OTA, but I think it is great.  

My only gripe is that there really isn't a lot offered in HD on either NBC or ABC.  They should at least have their primetime shows broadcast in HD.

[kjnorman]

I am now on my second SA 3100HD box (having swapped it on Saturday), so my comments are based two boxes to exclude hardward problems.

I find I have to make a distinction between film based HDTV and video based HDTV.

For film based HDTV, which is most of prime time out there, I find that the picture is vastly better than analog, but not that significantly better than anamorphic DVD.

For video sources, the picture looks very good (to my eyes at least) though I do notice some occasional chroma noise on reds that I would not have expected in a HD source.  HD Video like the ABC Concert for Children of the World, Leno, Showtime's Oddessy 5 and Shrek look great.

However, now here is a funny thing.  Last night I saw Frontier House on PBS (710) which was broadcast as SD widescreen.  This was shot on video and I could not decide if it was HD or SD widescreen until I checked this morning.  So here is the question.  Is SD widescreen video better than a HD transfer from film?

Logic tells me that the HD will always be better than SD if all else is equal.

However in terms of perceived quality, then a good SD widescreen digital picture can be comparable to a poor quality film based HD transfer.  But, a good quality video HD picture will win every time.

As for other aspects of the TW feed, I find I will get crackling (popping) sound on PBS (710) and also a little on WTMJ (but I did not watch much of this since I switched out the box and since they went to their fiber feed).  I very occasionally (about twice last night) got a momentary dropped picture on WISN.

The fact that I get problems on some channels and not others is odd.  perhaps TW feeds different signal strengths into the cable, and PBS is very week for me?

Kerry

[Skipjack]

 

Last night I saw Frontier House on PBS (710) which was broadcast as SD widescreen.

Interesting.. I watched the same program last night and thought the picture was better than what was being broadcast as HD on 4 & 12 at that time.  

So, apparently what I am seeing is HD highlighting analog film artifacts?

[kjnorman]

 

Originally posted by Skipjack:
Interesting.. I watched the same program last night and thought the picture was better than what was being broadcast as HD on 4 & 12 at that time.  

So, apparently what I am seeing is HD highlighting analog film artifacts?

I would not necessarily call film "analog", but yes, film does have grain and its own resolution that when transfered gives HDTV a softness that can make the picture not look as high resolution than it really is.  In no expert however   and this is just my perception.

As for Fountier House, I was watching The Practice on ABC, and during an ad break was switching channels to see what else was on.  I came across Frontier House by accident and was captivated by the picture, that I stayed with it.  Did not think it was standard def at the time.  Most surprising.

Kerry

[Tom Snyder]

I often find myself watching Network HD and thinking that it's not so hot...very little of the "WOW" factor that got me hooked on HDTV when I first saw it over 10 years ago at a broadcast convention. It's exponenttially better than analog, but still falls short of what it can do.

That's why I'm so glad I have HDNet, and why I'm so dissapointed that HiDef football is still MIA. Stuff shot orignally in Hidef is often jaw dropping... as any of you who saw the Olympics, The Inauguration, the last Presidential Conventions and the Great Circus Parade already know.

[Gregg Lengling]

I agree anything that was filmed and then converted in a film-chain loses alot.  Now if we had more programming like the series you can catch on HDNET and PBS that are "Titled Travels" but are nothing more than a blantant ad for the local are fantastic.  Over a year ago when we first got the 61" HDTV and started watching PBS and HDNET we really didn't plan on being all that impressed as most of the demo stuff we saw earlier was good but not great.

THEN:  We watched a number of items like: "Over British Columbia" et al.  Man it took a while to get used to it, it was like being on a ride at the amusement park when the plane/helicopter crossed the crest of mountain and you saw the SHEAR CLIFF on the other side.  You almost felt you were falling, you could feel it in your gut.  

I've seen some great scenes shot on film that never never never looked that good.  Now I don't even waste my time at the theater (for a number of reasons, uncomfortable, back problems, sticky seats), I just wait 4 to 6 months for the DVD, granted it still isn't 1080i or 720p but good DVD's (especially superbits) are fantastic...I don't know how many incidental sales of DVD players I'm made just by having company over for hors dourves and a movie.


Looking for more REAL HDTV production


------------------
Gregg R. Lengling
RCA P61310 61" 16x9
HiDTV Pro 2 computer reciever card
glengling@ameritech.net

[Skipjack]

 

I'm so dissapointed that HiDef football is still MIA.

Agreed.  The NFL in HD would be a great incentive for sports fans to invest in HD sets.  I guarantee that once I am able to have friends over to watch football in HD, they will want to run out and buy their own sets.  You would think at least the manufacturers would loan HD equipment to the networks more often.  Isn't that what happened between Panasonic and Monday Night Football?  Except MNF didn't want to buy the truck after the season was over.

[Gregg Lengling]

You might want to check out this news article I posted about NFL Films..... http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org/ubb/Forum12/HTML/000071.html

------------------
Gregg R. Lengling
RCA P61310 61" 16x9
HiDTV Pro 2 computer reciever card
glengling@ameritech.net

[Mike H]

Your feed must be the same as mine..  some images seem to have jaggies of compression and some seem softer than OTA. Though the added compression might be worsened by such Mits TV "features" as SVM and edge enhancement...  (garbage in garbage out?)

Overall I'm not impressed.  And really wondering what direction TWC is taking in this latest I-Control rollout. (I-control picture quality is really bad)  

In short will someone tell TWC that the I-control Tivo like opportunity is now misguided and OTA HDTV is gonna kill the current cable offerings UNLESS quality is the same.

Somebody tell TWC how supply and demand works when quality slips...

[Skipjack]

 

OTA HDTV is gonna kill the current cable offerings UNLESS quality is the same.

What I don't understand is the PBS-HD feed is great on my set, but the newer networks seem "less clear", albeit better than analog.  Is it possible we're not receiving a full 1080i on the new networks?  I'm not tech savvy when it comes to broadcast stuff.  So, please excuse my ignorance.  Would TWC have anything to gain by down converting to 780p before sending the signal out to my box?  Is there any way to tell what resolution I am receiving?

[gyoung]

 

What I don't understand is the PBS-HD feed is great on my set, but the newer networks seem "less clear", albeit better than analog. Is it possible we're not receiving a full 1080i on the new networks?

I think there is a difference in what you are seeing on PBS and on the other network channels.  From what I've read in these forums and others, HD all depends on the source material.  Most of the network stuff is filmed using the same process they have used for years.  That film is converted to HD and looks different.  The stuff on PBS and select shows are actually filmed with HD cameras and look a ton better.