Confusion appears to be present with 1-1, 58, 58-1 etc

[ReesR]

Bigcheesehead had a post just a couple down from this one where he shared his frustration over channel numbers for what defines digital channel 58.  This topic was started to share with him and others that he is not the only one who finds it confusing.

Yes, Channel 58 decided to not conform to normal PSIP data usage protocol. That is where the virtual channel number is defined by the tv station.  In other words, part of the digital signal contains the channel number you need to use to change to a recognized equivalent analog channel such as 4,6,10,12 etc.  In this case Channel 58 decided to use channel 1-1 to reference Channel 58.  Cool? It is not and here is why.

My Sony receiver (which has a built in tuner) won't even see them when I do a channel scan because it always starts at channel 2 then goes up from there.  I always have to manually enter 1-1 each time I want to watch them. Try explaining that to your wife sometime after spending big bucks.  Most receivers are like that.  Including my new Satellite/OTA receiver.

Bigcheesehead, to add to your confusion, your satellite receiver defines 58-1 through 58-5 because that is what Directv's programming guide information is giving to you.  That is not coming from the local station.  That is coming from Directv.  That makes for even more confusion at the hands of Channel 58's decision to not conform.  By the way, my Samsung HD satellite receiver handles it the same way.  They show it as channel 58-1 through 58-5 the same way it shows it for you.

I just wish they would just go back to being normal.  Aren't they proud of their channel number?  They certainly promote channel 58 enough but interestingly don't promote channel 1-1 very much, if at all.  How's that for a formula for confusion?

There will come a time when high definition programming becomes the norm that having to deal with issues like this will hurt them.  But currently they think they have this gawd awful edge because of CBS which makes them think we think of them being the number "1"(-1) channel.  Times will change eventually.  The old tv system had protocols which have evolved into a mature system.  However, currently we now have to deal with stations which think it is cute to use the new technology this way.

I would be interested in hearing how many here have similar issues of confusion in your family concerning this.

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Rees Roberts
Racine, WI
reesr@wi.net

HDTV Receiver:  Sony KD-34XBR2 16X9
Bi-directional AntennaCraft VHF Yagi Model #2260P
+
2 Winegard PR9022 UHF yagi's pointing N & S
Antennas at about 30 feet
Samsung SIR-TS160 HD Directv receiver

[This message has been edited by ReesR (edited 10-26-2002).]

[This message has been edited by ReesR (edited 10-27-2002).]

[Joseph S]

I basically had to beg the HiPix opensource authors to give me channel 1 back. It remains a major issue with the TitanTV scheduling as well because they've been flipping between assigning the record to 46.1,58.1,and 1.1.

I too wish they would either stick with 46 or choose a number not in use >1. It would solve a great many problems I've had with 1.1-1.3 being unrecognized.

[Gregg Lengling]

58 decided to set up their PSIP data to show channel for 2 simple reasons.  #1 it would list them as the first channel.  2nd when the FCC ends analogue transmissions the channels above 50 will no longer be TV but will be wireless communications.  So in 2005/6/7 they would have to change their channel number anyway so why not do it now.  I have no problem with either my DTC100 or HiDTV Pro 2.0 mapping any of the channels correctly..even channel 34 maps as channel 34-1..however without the PSIP setup right they have no callsign information and don't have the ability to tell my system that they are affiliated with channel 12.


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Gregg R. Lengling
RCA P61310 61" 16x9
HiDTV Pro 2 computer reciever card
glengling@ameritech.net

[ReesR]

Gregg:

I know why they did it.  I merely was pointing out the ramifications of confusion it has created.  I asked if family members found it confusing?  It is part of the big picture which is making it harder for people...not easier.

Further, I was pointing out that they are NOT the first channel.  The manufacturers start with channel 2 not 1.  And to create confusion at the beginning of the learning curve of HDTV when there would be a alot of people just trying to digest more than channels I believe is a crime.  It should be made easier not more difficult.  Heck, my wife uses the up/down channel button to surf.  Guess what?  58 never shows up.  Why wouldn't it be in 58's best interest to react to that info?

I will give channel 12 more time to get their PSIP info straightened out before coming to any conclusions.  They are just getting up and running.  But 58 has been around awhile in digital.

Let's hear from new users and/or old timers wives to get some other viewpoints.

[JohnRacine]

Hi Rees,

My Toshiba DST3000 displays channel 58 digital as 1-1, but I can use the channel up/down buttons to tune it in.  I don't have to make a direct entry like you apparently do.  The logo in the upper left hand corner says "CBS58HD 1-1".  So, I don't have the same problem that you have.  On a side note, for WGN out of Chicago, my STB maps it as "WGN DT 9-1" which is fine, but it also shows up as "WGN WB 75-1", even though it's the exact same station.  So, when I'm surfing using the channel up/down buttons, WGN comes up twice.  I cannot delete 75-1 in the menu because that menu does not display channels any higher than 69. I can delete any channels that I don't want to watch below 69 (such as 10-2, 3, etc.).  This problem only exists with WGN out of Chicago so it's not a big deal.

[StarvingForHDTV]

I find it hard to understand their logic on this as well.  1.1 or 46.1 have about the same level of "branding" to me.  58.1 would have been a logical choice in my mind.  The real branding comes from the network though, in my opinion.  The little translucent logo in the bottom right hand corner during the show tells me I'm watching CBS more than remembering what channel number I happen to be on at the time.

But even then, I'm most likely to watch something if it is in true high definition, so whichever channel has a true HD program on gets my viewing time.  If/when there are two channels with HD programming on at the same time, the decision comes down to content.  I don't care what network it is, as long as it's HD and hopefully entertaining as well.

My two cents,

Starving

P.S.  On the Sony HD200 box, I can tune with up/down channel through the digital stations like this.  Up 1.1,1.2,1.3,4.1,6.1,10.1,10.2,10.3,10.4,10.5,22.1,34.1  If I keep pressing up it goes to analog 18 then analog 24 then back to 1.1  Pressing down channel is the reverse sequence.  I have no problem really with having CBS mapped to 1.1 I suppose.

[Ron Pollitt]

On my Sensory Science OTA digital receiver, CBS shows up as :

Ch1-1    CBS58HD    UHF46
CH1-2    WMLW41     UHF46
CH1-3    TElE63     UHF46

My wife likes it that way because it shows the network affiliation so she doesn't have to remember which channel is CBS.  Unfortunately, ABC shows up as:

Ch34-P1              UHF34  

On the same menu.  
This box has a favorites menu feature which allows me the capability to capture all the digital stations on one menu to advoid the antalog clutter when I channel up and down the favorites list.  I have a guide button that I can press to see what is playing the rest of the night on a paticular station.  Unfortunately, only one or two stations are transmitting that information right now.
On a side note I bought this box on eBay during a liquidation of the Sensory Corp's. HDTV boxes for around $230 dollars, so it doesn't have to cost a lot to go HDTV.
Ron


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[tenth_t2]

Is it just me, or is 58 MIA?  Couldn't find King of Queens at 7, will look for a signal again now.  

Greg O.

[Frank Childress]

Greg,

It's not just you. I've got a solid 98% signal but nothing to see. Last time this happened 58 had a misconfigured PSIP data stream.

Frank

[Gregg Lengling]

This has happened before do  a search on this site, I think there is a phone number you can call so an engineer can reboot it.


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Gregg R. Lengling
RCA P61310 61" 16x9
HiDTV Pro 2 computer reciever card
glengling@ameritech.net

[Frank Childress]

Well if anyone finds a number I'll be glad to call. I've searched every way I can think of with no luck.

Frank

[Gregg Lengling]

Well then look them up in the phone book and find a number that answers and ask to speak to an engineer and tell them 1-1 is off the air......
I'd do it but I'm tied up here.


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Gregg R. Lengling
RCA P61310 61" 16x9
HiDTV Pro 2 computer reciever card
glengling@ameritech.net

[mcq]

That's wierd... I get 1-1 on the HiDTV , but not the DTC-100!?

Excellant, I wanted to record it anyway...Good football game in crisp digital!!!!!

[Gregg Lengling]

Yeah at first I had a black screen on the HiDTV but then I tried 1-2 and it worked, went back to 1-1 and everythings okay.  Tried it on the RCA and nothing...tried 1-1, 1-2 and everytime it just goes back to 1-1 and a black screen.


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Gregg R. Lengling
RCA P61310 61" 16x9
HiDTV Pro 2 computer reciever card
glengling@ameritech.net

[ReesR]

Now I'm confused.  Is there confusion out there?