Cable vs DSS

[chure]

I've had Directv for a year+ and I'm thinking of switching to TW HD cable.  I have a Mits 47" HD ready tv and would like to take full advantage of it and receive HD.  I've been pleased with DSS, but would like HD without having to pay $500+ for a HD reciever, which leads me to looking into cable.  I've seen the TWC's HD channels and they look great, but I'm apprehensive about the rest of the channels quality.  (Unfortunately, I made the mistake of showing my wife how to use the remote and at times she controls the  TV, needless to say I'd be in trouble if the picture on TLC etc. were "snowy".)

So I'm looking for opinions on TWC HD.  Good/bad etc.  I've read about different receivers that are available, which is the best?  I've also read about a special cable that should be used?  Does a running the cable through a monster cable surge protector increase the picture clarity?

Any advice is appreciative.

[Mrtanner]

TLC and other analog channels look poor compared to the digital channels and absolutely terrible compared to HD.  Just keep telling your wife it looks as good as it did through the dish, she's just spoiled with HD.

[gyoung]

Yeah, any channels in the analog range look pretty bad.  Especially on all of our nice TVs, I think it just gets exaggerated.

[Greg Oman]

I think if you get TWC, they have a tuner box for you-- ie. you lose some ability to choose the tuner.  Depending on the satelite company, you can choose receivers from several companies.  Check with TWC to be sure though.

As far as cable, no, to my knowledge RG-6u is the preferable cable.  Anything else is pretty much hype.

Lastly, No, a surge device will not do anything to the picture quality to improve it usually.  If you have a ground loop hum, it may help that, but by in large, think of it this way-- although important, you're installing another break into the line.  Keeping runs as contiguous as possible will help, second only to reducing cable length.

Hope this helps,

Greg O.

[chure]

Guys, thanks for your help

It's still going to be hard to step down with picture quality.  

Maybe I'm making this up, but do you know if TWC offers a trial period, free, to see if you like the digital and HD compared to Direct TV?

[Tom Snyder]

I say have them come out anyway, and do an A/B side by side comparison of TLC and any other mid-tier channels you (and your wife watch)... the difference will be noticeable.  It will take a trial period of about 10 seconds.

Just tell the cable guy he's gotta give you identical picture quality or he can take his box and go (which he will probably end up doing).  

TWC needs to have more tech guys coming back and complaining about the crappy quality of their product before managment will give a rip.

[FreQi]

I may be moving in the next couple months, so I am considering switching to Satelite because the picture quality on TW Digi Cable is pretty terrible.  I should know because on average I encode about 2 hours of TV shows every day, so I notice this.

Local stations are decent quality, but are recoverable through some filtering.

Channels under 100 are more or less the same as analog cable, but they are very noisey (snowy).  Some channels like USA and WE are just awful.  Trying to filter those channels almost hurts them more than it helps.  You generally won't notice this on a regular tv, but a projector or an HDTV makes it quite noticable.

Channels over 100 are Digital channels.  You can tell by changing the channel to them.  You first see some blocks of the image matrix slowing filling in for the first coulpe seconds rather than just snapping to a full image.  These channels are a mixed blessing, as most of them look really good (Discovery, Science, TechTV), but scene changes are often garbaged.  You can see a lot of artifacing before and after scene changes.  Other channels appear to be severely downsampled, like MTV2.  That channel is complete crap.  These channels also suffer from what seems like signal loss on occasion.  The Audio will cut and the image will freeze for a few seconds and then you can see the image matrix rebuilding as if you just turned to the channel.  This doesn't happen regularly, but it's often enough to be disappointed by it.

Premium channels, like HBO and Showtime suffer from similar problems as the digital channels, but the scene change artifacting is much more pronounced.

As far as PPV channels, I wouldn't know, as I never used one.  And the "Digital Music Channels", I don't think I have ever tuned into those either.

HDTV channels are sort of a hassle, but the Picture Quality is good.  I can't say much about it however since my roomate has the HD cable box in his room and I use the OTA reciever in my computer.

Calling TimeWarner to compain about PQ ususally leads to them telling me to reboot the tuner (which I do on a weekly basis), or they send a signal to the box to fectory reset it (so I loose all my favorites and recording timers).  I've have service tech's inmy house no less than a half dozen times in the last year, but gernerally the PQ remains the same.  It's fine for most people, but those of use with computer monitors, hdtv's and 8 foot projectors notice the poor quality quite easily.

The main reason I fear switching to Satelite is the weather causing outages (snow, etc).  Is that a fear I should not have?

[drgingras]

After 3 years with Dish, I can count the number of rain fade episodes on one hand. Even with 2 dishes, we've never lost signal due to snow or ice. I am pretty religious about coating both dishes with Pam in the fall, and I do put a cover on the rooftop dish every winter.

This may be an ideal time to give satellite some consideration. Dish has announced a bunch of new hardware, software and programming, starting this summer. Directv is contacting current subs regarding their viewing "wish lists". Lots of new account incentives are sure to follow from both. Ain't competition wonderful?

And, while satellite may not be as convenient, the PQ is pretty good across the board, really good on the movie channels, and outstanding on the HD stuff. Just keep in mind that the up-front cost for hi-def on satellite is there. Unlike cable, the cost of a HD STB is not amortized with higher monthly bills and rental fees. You buy it and own it.

Satellite STB's also open up the possibility of over-the -air locals, including digital signals. However, locals provided via satellite mean an extra $6/month, and no HD locals.

Lots of things to consider, but having choices is how it should be. And being a member of this forum is how good choices are made!

(Dave steps off his satellite soapbox)

[FreQi]

Satellite STB's also open up the possibility of over-the -air locals, including digital signals. However, locals provided via satellite mean an extra $6/month, and no HD locals.

I forgot about the lack of local channels thing.  If you did not subscribe to the locals package (whatever they call it), would you have any way of still getting stations like FOX, ABC, NBC, CBS, WB or UPN from some national feed?

I've always wanted an actual network feed without all the stupid banners promoting what's up next, or what station I am watching (WITI has a terrible banner every 10 or 15mins, and WISN uses that big 12.  Thank God HDTV feeds don't suffer from these things).

[chure]

So this correct for Satellite, if you have a HD and then get a OTA antenna you wouldn't have to pay $6 for the locals?  Makes sense I think.  I'm looking for anyway to convince the wife that it makes sense to pay $500 to see 6 channels of HD!

[FreQi]

I don't know how sat deals with local channels, but if you're talking about OTA dTV channels, you'll be paying a lot more than $6 for it.  You'd need an expensive set-top dTV decoder box, or a ~$300 card for a computer to get them.  I don't know if you can get Network stations (fox, abc, etc) in HD over satelite at all...

[mhz40]

Originally posted by Greg Oman
clip As far as cable, no, to my knowledge RG-6u is the preferable cable.  Anything else is pretty much hype.
/clip

Actually unless your drop is very long, RG59 is generally used.  And even then, usually the RG6 will stop at the ground block and then transition to RG59. Use of RG6 to feed your gear can trash it's antenna input connectors.  Since 6's diameter is somewhat larger than 59, it can actually spread the contacts inside the F connecter so bad that they loose their ability to maintain contact with anything smaller.  In virtaully all cases, the connector on your equipment is not easily replaced.  If you have to go RG6, I suggest putting a F barrel just before the tuner input, followed by a short piece of 59 to feed your equipment.  Keep all connections slightly better than finger tight and ALWAYS use threaded fittings, NEVER those cheasy push-on's provided with VCR's.

[Talos4]

don't know if you can get Network stations (fox, abc, etc) in HD over satelite at all...

Nope, Only SD flavor available on the dish.

Not enough bandwidth to carry a full blown HD signal.

Besides I still think getting the HD signal ota would provide a much better and cheaper picture.

[drgingras]

Originally posted by FreQi
I forgot about the lack of local channels thing.  If you did not subscribe to the locals package (whatever they call it), would you have any way of still getting stations like FOX, ABC, NBC, CBS, WB or UPN from some national feed?

Nope, national feeds and "distant locals" require a waiver that must be signed off by the local affiliates. Since the locals don't want to lose potential viewers/advertising dollars, a waiver becomes an impossible dream.

I read a post on AVS a while back by a guy in northern IL. who was outside the Chicago broadcast area. He applied for a waiver to get CBS national feed (coincidentially, I'm sure, the only digital network feed available on satellite;) ). His waiver request was denied because he fell within WISN's coverage area. Yes, Milwaukee's WISN. They refused to sign off. All those banners, ads and commercials are like gold to the locals.

As for the lack of clutter on the digital channels, savor the moment. A true benefit of being an early adaptor. As we approach the analog cutoff date, all the self-promotional materials will begin to make the migration to digital.

Dave

[Kevin Arnold]

I think you meant CBS58 denied the wavier, as I recall.  Even though that fellow was in the fringe viewing area, no one gets any slack.