Milwaukee HDTV User Group

Quote from: goldenear;46518You can't relate digital cable to OTA digital broadcast with the above scenarios because neither one has anything to do with the other at the consumer end.  Digital cable boxes will happily output an analog stream over component, S-vid, composite, and coax, thus maintaining full compatibility with existing analog televisions.  This is why the TWC blurb correctly identified TWC as a viable alternative to either replacing your analog set or purchasing an OTA converter box.

So TWC could still pull the plug on its analog offering (forcing all subs to move to digital cable) and still remain the alternative option to analog OTA folks.

My semantic angle goes like this:

Since it does not specify otherwise, the TW blurb implies that existing analog subscribers will see no changes in the near future.  We all know analog will disappear eventually, but I stand by my earlier analysis.  

TW says "... analog-only TVs that receive those stations via an antenna won't display them after 2/17/09 unless you take action."

It does not say "analog-only TVs that receive these stations via cable ..."

So how could this be read to imply what you are saying?  Only if Time Warner is going to give me an infinite number of set-top boxes for no extra charge.

The only thing I could get by reading between the lines is "Cable good, OTA bad.  OTA not care you have to spend big money for picture box.  Cable like you.  Cable take care of you even if OTA abandon you."

Quote from: SVD;464313. By Feb. 2009, an all digital network will allow for 100+ HD channels in the Milwaukee area.  

4. Next big step is to offer channel by channel subscriptions to TWC customers.  You pay for only the channels you want.

I am sure you saw this bill stuffer that came with my TW e-bill notification, bold emphasis added by me:

IMPORTANT INFORMATION ON THE DTV TRANSITION:
 
On February 17, 2009, full-power TV stations will stop broadcasting in analog and switch to 100% digital broadcasting. For more information, contact Time Warner Cable at 1.800.TWCABLE or visit http://www.dtv.gov. As a Time Warner Cable customer, your TVs connected to cable will continue to display [the same/full-power/broadcast] stations. However, analog-only TVs that receive those stations via an antenna won't display them after 2/17/09 unless you take action. (Those TVs should continue to display low-power, Class-A and translator TV stations and work with gaming consoles, VCRs, DVD players, etc.) One option: Contact Time Warner Cable at 1.800.TWCABLE to have those TVs connected to cable. (Installation fees may apply.) Other options: replace those TVs or buy converter boxes that will allow them to display DTV signals. The NTIA will provide up to two $40 coupons per household for the purchase of such boxes. For information, visit https://www.dtv2009.gov or call 888-DTV-2009.


Choose your theory:
1.  The tech is uninformed and feeding you a line.
2.  The tech has been fed by someone uninformed.
3.  TW has a secret plan to give customers a false sense of security and then pull the rug out.  
4.  Bev Greenberg fed one line to plant maintenance and a polar opposite line to customer service and Tim Cuprisin.  

I have the $16 a month plan where the cable goes through my Electroline amp and straight into the backs of all of my four TVs, DVD recorder and VCR.  Not though six set-top boxes.  If analog goes away and isn't replaced by clear QAM, it's sayonara Time Warner.  I am sure they will not miss me!

If on the other hand they can offer a la carte, we'll do the math and see if we can send a little more money their way.  Probably not $50 or $60 a month, but if we can keep it to $1 or $1.25 a day, I could live with that.

Quote from: jimmymke;45412when I get a tv with the digital tuner, will I have access to anyone's analog OTA signal?  Do they still have NTSC tuners in the new tvs that allow you to choose?

There are reportedly some coupon-eligible ATSC external converters that at least when OFF will pass NTSC through to the TV.  I don't have one and I don't have specifics.  

If you want to do this with a TV that has a built-in tuner, you should be OK.  I've only played with an Olevia 537, but it will auto-search and display all NTSC and ATSC OTA channels that it can find.  For example it will find 4, 6, 10, 12, 18, 24, 36, 58 NTSC and also 4.1, 4.2 .... 58.1, 58.2, 58.3 ATSC.

That's a good question.  I think 10-36 has decided to not simulcast in most cases.  I don't know why.  

I can guess that they figure if you have access to 10-36 digital, you  also have access to 10-36 analog, so since they have alternate programs available, why would they simulcast?  

I don't know what their long-term plan is, however.

E-mail will get you nowhere on policy/contract questions.  You'll get canned responses or none at all.  Calling customer service on the phone will also get you dartboard responses.  

These are management issues in almost every case.  

Instead:

First call the office of Bev Greenberg at Time Warner in Milwaukee and ask your questions directly to her or a representative on the phone.   I was advised to do that by local government a couple of years ago, and surprisingly I actually got to talk to somebody in her office and they had some good answers.    

Second, if you're not happy with their response, contact your local franchising authority to find out what their process is for filing complaints and under what circumstances it can be used.  

You already know the third option.  

Good luck.

1.  As previously mentioned, tencom may win the argument at the bar, where everybody is fueled by alcohol, but serious debate runs on facts and citations, and tencom has neither.  

2.  Long-term, mass media is screwed.  What in local news is worth watching in HD?  How much longer local TV can survive on news profits is an open question.  They are getting squeezed more each year by declining viewership.  You can see the desperation as news gets more and more sensational and focused on crises, fear, sex and weather.  

3.  Lack of profitability in local operations notwithstanding, there is a place for subsidized public broadcasting for the time being.  There will always be bias one way or another, but I want news from around the world and around the country.  My for-profit choices are limited and do not match the breadth or depth available from Lehrer, NPR, the BBC and the like.  

As a kid in the 1970s most of what I knew about the world came from CBS radio news and CBS, NBC and ABC TV News.  As those operations have become less profitable they have cut back and public broadcasting, which does not have the same money-making pressures, has filled the gap.  

There could be some chicken-and-egg questions but it's been a slow slide into the abyss of mediocrity and less money for for-profit mass media.  Eventually maybe we will all be reporting and listening to some kind of mass-pseudo-edited digest of world news reported by YouTube videos and blogs.  Some conglomeration of what Malcolm Gladwell discusses in The Tipping Point and Blink.  

4.  Others have stated that the current licensing of OTA broadcast rights are essentially subsidizing broadcaster profits, because broadcasters do not pay any significant royalties or fees for ongoing use.  They should pay some percentage of their profits just like a manufacturer pays for raw materials, but since their profits will probably continue to decline, there's going to be little appetite for changing this and of course industry lobbyists will work hard to shoot down any such legislation.  It's more likely that as conventional OTA television (and radio) continue to decline in audience numbers and profits, frequencies will once again be reallocated to more profitable uses.

THANK YOU for taking the time to post that list!  VERY HELPFUL.

Follow-up:  Since their HTDV only has one RF input, and TW seems to be inconsistent about what they are providing on the cable, I gave them the compromise I read about elsewhere:  

TW cable comes thru the VCR tuner then to a composite input on the HDTV.  So, they do not get whatever TW is putting on BASIC in HD.  

Rabbit ears connect to the RF input on the HDTV.  All of the expected HD OTA channels look fantastic, and getting 10-2 and up etc. works great.  

Thanks for the responses.

Quote from: nick3092;43649With digital signals, there is no difference in picture quality versus OTA and QAM.  With a digital signal either it's there, or its not.  

That part I understand; but I've seen other discussions about how TW or DirecTV etc. are using compression or whatever so the OTA signals actually do look better than what shows up from a subscription system.

Thanks.  Do I need two ATSC/QAM tuners to get everything available from basic cable, (analog NTSC and unencrypted QAM) and also get ATSC OTA broadcasts without a lot of rigmarole?  

In other words, if I have one RF input, what happens if I put in an A/B switch where A is Time Warner and B is my OTA antenna?  

Do you see a difference in quality between TW and OTA?  For example 10-1 on TW vs. 10-1 OTA?

I hooked up my neighbor's HDTV to Time Warner BASIC ($14+ a month, no converter, just the wire from the pole), set the the TV to CABLE and did the auto-search.  To my surprise I found that it receives HD on channels such as 116-1 or whatever.  I didn't make a list but there are 20 total.  Seems there's some older threads around here about these findings.  

However I didn't find 10-2 or higher.  Is there a matrix somewhere to convert Time Warner's 5xx channels to whatever the TV will show on-screen thru the ATSC tuner?

This whole virtual channel thing is pretty confusing.  Thanks.

I would get that exact date of the change and try to contact MPTV by e-mail or phone.  See if you can get to someone in engineering who deals with the ATSC signal encoding.

How directional is this thing at your location?  For example do you have to move it 5 deg. or 45 deg. to get a noticeable change?

How directional is it vertically?  I would probably have to mount mine pointing slightly skyward in a knee wall space.  

How many layers of sheetrock, shingles etc. do you have on your roof interior and exterior?

How is your reception on WMVS 10?  Looks like that's the only HD broadcaster using VHF (Ch. .

Quote from: bschmidt25;36950For the past week or so, AT&T has been installing a brand new service panel next to the road, next to their existing panel, in the condo complex I live in.  The new box is huge -  probably twice as wide and tall as the existing one.  It looks like they're working with copper - not fiber.  There's no new construction in my area, so I'm kind of wondering if they're actually getting ready to roll out U-Verse in the area.  Anyone heard anything lately?

Can you give me an intersection?  I'd like to take some photos.  

I just noticed one yesterday by Sprecher Brewery, on Glendale Ave. in the I-43 ROW.