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Ack.. am I a traitor???

Started by Tom Snyder, Tuesday May 25, 2004, 11:11:14 pm

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Gregg Lengling

QuoteOriginally posted by gparris
My neigbourhood includes an association where we all agreed that unslightly mast antennas and big black dishes were not to be allowed in the community, but the satellite dishes like Directv and so forth were allowed from any roof location.:D  

I hope you realize that what Borghe posted is the law....even in your subdivision with the covenents against antennas...it is now federally pre-empted.  I could buy the house next to you and put up a tripod with a 10 foot height and put a TV antenna or Amateur Radio antenna on the roof and the courts would just say that your Assoc. Rules are superceded by federal law.

Sorry that's the world today.
Gregg R. Lengling, W9DHI
Living the life with a 65" Aquos
glengling at milwaukeehdtv dot org  {fart}

Gregg Lengling

Here is the relevant FCC rule:

47 CFR Subpart S - Preemption of Restrictions that "Impair" the ability to receive television broadcast signals, direct broadcast satellite services, or ultichannel multipoint distribution services or the ability to receive or transmit fixed wireless communications signals


§1.4000  Restrictions impairing reception of television broadcast signals, direct broadcast satellite services or multichannel multipoint distribution services.

   (a)(1)  Any restriction, including but not limited to any state or local law or regulation, including zoning, land-use, or building regulations, or any private covenant, contract provision, lease provision, homeowners' association rule or similar restriction, on property within the exclusive use or control of the antenna user where the user has a direct or indirect ownership or leasehold interest in the property that impairs the installation, maintenance, or use of:
         (i)  An antenna that is designed to receive direct broadcast satellite service, including direct-to-home satellite services, that is one meter or less in diameter or is located in Alaska;
         (ii)  An antenna that is designed to receive video programming services via multipoint distribution services, including multichannel multipoint distribution services, instructional television fixed services, and local multipoint distribution services, and that is one meter or less in diameter or diagonal measurement;
         (iii)  An antenna that is designed to receive television broadcast signals; or
         (iv)  A mast supporting an antenna described in paragraphs (a)(1)(i), (a)(1)(ii) or (a)(1)(iii) of this section; is prohibited to the extent it so impairs, subject to paragraph (b) of this section.
      (2)  For purposes of this section, a law, regulation or restriction impairs installation, maintenance or use of an antenna if it:
         (i)  Unreasonably delays or prevents installation, maintenance or use,
         (ii)  Unreasonably increases the cost of installation, maintenance or use, or
         (iii)  Precludes reception of an acceptable quality signal.
      (3)  Any fee or cost imposed on a viewer by a rule, law, regulation or restriction must be reasonable in light of the cost of the equipment or services and the rule, law, regulation or restriction's treatment of comparable devices.  No civil, criminal, administrative, or other legal action of any kind shall be taken to enforce any restriction or regulation prohibited by this section except pursuant to paragraph (c) or (d) of this section.  In addition, except with respect to restrictions pertaining to safety and historic preservation as described in paragraph (b) of this section, if a proceeding is initiated pursuant to paragraph (c) or (d) of this section, the entity seeking to enforce the antenna restrictions in question must suspend all enforcement efforts pending completion of review.  No attorney's fees shall be collected or assessed and no fine or other penalties shall accrue against an antenna user while a proceeding is pending to determine the validity of any restriction.  If a ruling is issued adverse to a viewer, the viewer shall be granted at least a 21-day grace period in which to comply with the adverse ruling; and neither a fine nor a penalty may be collected from the viewer if the viewer complies with the adverse ruling during this grace period, unless the proponent of the restriction demonstrates, in the same proceeding which resulted in the adverse ruling, that the viewer's claim in the proceeding was frivolous.
   (b)  Any restriction otherwise prohibited by paragraph (a) of this section is permitted if:
      (1)  It is necessary to accomplish a clearly defined, legitimate safety objective that is either stated in the text, preamble or legislative history of the restriction or described as applying to that restriction in a document that is readily available to antenna users, and would be applied to the extent practicable in a non-discriminatory manner to other appurtenances, devices, or fixtures that are comparable in size and weight and pose a similar or greater safety risk as these antennas and to which local regulation would normally apply; or
      (2)  It is necessary to preserve a prehistoric or historic district, site, building, structure or object included in, or eligible for inclusion on, the National Register of Historic Places, as set forth in the National Historic Preservation Act of 1966, as amended, 16 USC 470, and imposes no greater restrictions on antennas covered by this rule than are imposed on the installation, maintenance or use of other modern appurtenances, devices or fixtures that are comparable in size, weight, and appearance to these antennas; and
      (3)  It is no more burdensome to affected antenna users than is necessary to achieve the objectives described in paragraph (b)(1) or (b)(2) of this section.
   (c)  Local governments or associations may apply to the Commission for a waiver of this section under §1.3.  Waiver requests must comply with the procedures in paragraphs (e) and (g) of this section and will be put on public notice.  The Commission may grant a waiver upon a showing by the applicant of local concerns of a highly specialized or unusual nature.  No petition for waiver shall be considered unless it specifies the restriction at issue.  Waivers granted in accordance with this section shall not apply to restrictions amended or enacted after the waiver is granted.  Any responsive pleadings must be served on all parties and filed within 30 days after release of a public notice that such petition has been filed.  Any replies must be filed within 15 days thereafter.
   (d)  Parties may petition the Commission for a declaratory ruling under §1.2, or a court of competent jurisdiction, to determine whether a particular restriction is permissible or prohibited under this section.  Petitions to the Commission must comply with the procedures in paragraphs (e) and (g) of this section and will be put on public notice.  Any responsive pleadings in a Commission proceeding must be served on all parties and filed within 30 days after release of a public notice that such petition has been filed.  Any replies in a Commission proceeding must be served on all parties and filed within 15 days thereafter.
   (e)  Copies of petitions for declaratory rulings and waivers must be served on interested parties, including parties against whom the petitioner seeks to enforce the restriction or parties whose restrictions the petitioner seeks to prohibit.  A certificate of service stating on whom the petition was served must be filed with the petition. In addition, in a Commission proceeding brought by an association or a local government, constructive notice of the proceeding must be given to members of the association or to the citizens under the local government's jurisdiction.  In a court proceeding brought by an association, an association must give constructive notice of the proceeding to its members.  Where constructive notice is required, the petitioner or plaintiff must file with the Commission or the court overseeing the proceeding a copy of the constructive notice with a statement explaining where the notice was placed and why such placement was reasonable.
   (f)  In any proceeding regarding the scope or interpretation of any provision of this section, the burden of demonstrating that a particular governmental or nongovernmental restriction complies with this section and does not impair the installation, maintenance or use of devices designed for over-the-air reception of video programming services shall be on the party that seeks to impose or maintain the restriction.

   (g)  All allegations of fact contained in petitions and related pleadings before the Commission must be supported by affidavit of a person or persons with actual knowledge thereof.  An original and two copies of all petitions and pleadings should be addressed to the Secretary, Federal Communications Commission, 445 12th Street, SW, Washington, DC 20554.  Copies of the petitions and related pleadings will be available for public inspection in the Reference Information Center, Consumer Information Bureau, Federal Communications Commission, 445 12th Street, SW, Washington, DC 20554.  Copies will be available for purchase from the Commission's contract copy center, and Commission decisions will be available on the Internet.
Gregg R. Lengling, W9DHI
Living the life with a 65" Aquos
glengling at milwaukeehdtv dot org  {fart}

Gregg Lengling

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Effective upon OMB approval, 66 FR 2322, §1.4000 is revised to read as follows:  §1.4000  Restrictions impairing reception of television broadcast signals, direct broadcast satellite services, or multichannel multipoint distribution services and restrictions impairing reception or transmission of fixed wireless communications signals. - (a)(1)  Any restriction, including but not limited to any state or local law or regulation, including zoning, land-use, or building regulations, or any private covenant, contract provision, lease provision, homeowners' association rule or similar restriction, on property within the exclusive use or control of the antenna user where the user has a direct or indirect ownership or leasehold interest in the property that impairs the installation, maintenance, or use of:
         (i)  An antenna that is:
            (A)  Used to receive direct broadcast satellite service, including direct-to-home satellite service, or to receive or transmit fixed wireless signals via satellite, and
            (B)  One meter or less in diameter or is located in Alaska;
         (ii)  An antenna that is:
            (A)  Used to receive video programming services via multipoint distribution services, including multichannel multipoint distribution services, instructional television fixed services, and local multipoint distribution services, or to receive or transmit fixed wireless signals other than via satellite, and
            (B)  That is one meter or less in diameter or diagonal measurement;
         (iii)  An antenna that is used to receive television broadcast signals; or
         (iv)  A mast supporting an antenna described in paragraphs (a)(1)(i), (a)(1)(ii), or (a)(1)(iii) of this section; is prohibited to the extent it so impairs, subject to paragraph (b) of this section.
      (2)  For purposes of this section, "fixed wireless signals" means any commercial non-broadcast communications signals transmitted via wireless technology to and/or from a fixed customer location.  Fixed wireless signals do not include, among other things, AM radio, FM radio, amateur ("HAM") radio, Citizen's Band (CB) radio, and Digital Audio Radio Service (DARS) signals.
      (3)  For purposes of this section, a law, regulation, or restriction impairs installation, maintenance, or use of an antenna if it:
         (i)  Unreasonably delays or prevents installation, maintenance, or use;
         (ii)  Unreasonably increases the cost of installation, maintenance, or use; or
         (iii)  Precludes reception or transmission of an acceptable quality signal.
      (4)  Any fee or cost imposed on a user by a rule, law, regulation or restriction must be reasonable in light of the cost of the equipment or services and the rule, law, regulation or restriction's treatment of comparable devices.  No civil, criminal, administrative, or other legal action of any kind shall be taken to enforce any restriction or regulation prohibited by this section except pursuant to paragraph (d) or (e) of this section. In addition, except with respect to restrictions pertaining to safety and historic preservation as described in paragraph (b) of this section, if a proceeding is initiated pursuant to paragraph (d) or (e) of this section, the entity seeking to enforce the antenna restrictions in question must suspend all enforcement efforts pending completion of review.  No attorney's fees shall be collected or assessed and no fine or other penalties shall accrue against an antenna user while a proceeding is pending to determine the validity of any restriction.  If a ruling is issued adverse to a user, the user shall be granted at least a 21-day grace period in which to comply with the adverse ruling; and neither a fine nor a penalty may be collected from the user if the user complies with the adverse ruling during this grace period, unless the proponent of the restriction demonstrates, in the same proceeding which resulted in the adverse ruling, that the user's claim in the proceeding was frivolous.
   (b)  Any restriction otherwise prohibited by paragraph (a) of this section is permitted if:
      (1)  It is necessary to accomplish a clearly defined, legitimate safety objective that is either stated in the text, preamble, or legislative history of the restriction or described as applying to that restriction in a document that is readily available to antenna users, and would be applied to the extent practicable in a non-discriminatory manner to other appurtenances, devices, or fixtures that are comparable in size and weight and pose a similar or greater safety risk as these antennas and to which local regulation would normally apply; or
      (2)  It is necessary to preserve a prehistoric or historic district, site, building, structure or object included in, or eligible for inclusion on, the National Register of Historic Places, as set forth in the National Historic Preservation Act of 1966, as amended, 16 USC Section 470, and imposes no greater restrictions on antennas covered by this rule than are imposed on the installation, maintenance, or use of other modern appurtenances, devices, or fixtures that are comparable in size, weight, and appearance to these antennas; and
      (3)  It is no more burdensome to affected antenna users than is necessary to achieve the objectives described in paragraphs (b)(1) or (b)(2) of this section.
   (c)  In the case of an antenna that is used to transmit fixed wireless signals, the provisions of this section shall apply only if a label is affixed to the antenna that:
      (1)  Provides adequate notice regarding potential radiofrequency safety hazards, e.g., information regarding the safe minimum separation distance required between users and transceiver antennas; and
      (2)  References the applicable FCC-adopted limits for radiofrequency exposure specified in §1.1310 of this chapter.
   (d)  Local governments or associations may apply to the Commission for a waiver of this section under §1.3 of this chapter.  Waiver requests must comply with the procedures in paragraphs (f) and (h) of this section and will be put on public notice.  The Commission may grant a waiver upon a showing by the applicant of local concerns of a highly specialized or unusual nature.  No petition for waiver shall be considered unless it specifies the restriction at issue.  Waivers granted in accordance with this section shall not apply to restrictions amended or enacted after the waiver is granted.  Any responsive pleadings must be served on all parties and filed within 30 days after release of a public notice that such petition has been filed.  Any replies must be filed within 15 days thereafter.
   (e)  Parties may petition the Commission for a declaratory ruling under §1.2 of this chapter, or a court of competent jurisdiction, to determine whether a particular restriction is permissible or prohibited under this section.  Petitions to the Commission must comply with the procedures in paragraphs (f) and (h) of this section and will be put on public notice.  Any responsive pleadings in a Commission proceeding must be served on all parties and filed within 30 days after release of a public notice that such petition has been filed.  Any replies in a Commission proceeding must be served on all parties and filed within 15 days thereafter.
   (f)  Copies of petitions for declaratory rulings and waivers must be served on interested parties, including parties against whom the petitioner seeks to enforce the restriction or parties whose restrictions the petitioner seeks to prohibit.  A certificate of service stating on whom the petition was served must be filed with the petition.  In addition, in a Commission proceeding brought by an association or a local government, constructive notice of the proceeding must be given to members of the association or to the citizens under the local government's jurisdiction.  In a court proceeding brought by an association, an association must give constructive notice of the proceeding to its members.  Where constructive notice is required, the petitioner or plaintiff must file with the Commission or the court overseeing the proceeding a copy of the constructive notice with a statement explaining where the notice was placed and why such placement was reasonable.
   (g)  In any proceeding regarding the scope or interpretation of any provision of this section, the burden of demonstrating that a particular governmental or nongovernmental restriction complies with this section and does not impair the installation, maintenance, or use of devices used for over-the-air reception of video programming services or devices used to receive or transmit fixed wireless signals shall be on the party that seeks to impose or maintain the restriction.
   (h)  All allegations of fact contained in petitions and related pleadings before the Commission must be supported by affidavit of a person or persons with actual knowledge thereof.  An original and two copies of all petitions and pleadings should be addressed to the Secretary, Federal Communications Commission, 445 12th Street, SW., Washington, DC 20554.  Copies of the petitions and related pleadings will be available for public inspection in the Reference Information Center, Consumer Information Bureau, Federal Communications Commission, 445 12th Street, SW., Washington, DC 20554.  Copies will be available for purchase from the Commission's contract copy center, and Commission decisions will be available on the Internet.]
Gregg R. Lengling, W9DHI
Living the life with a 65" Aquos
glengling at milwaukeehdtv dot org  {fart}

mhz40

So in a nutshell, it's OK to put up an antenna.  Hear that Fox6?

sp44again

I like how everybody harps on needing to have a big ugly antenna. What about the little Zenith Silver Sensor I have on top of my TV. Nobody sees it but me. :) And it's not a hobby to tune a station. I set it in one place and never move it.

gparris

It is great you can use your little antenna and get the OTA...but many of us cannot. The Federal Government has not made digital stations to go a FULL power. If you live close enough to one to use that baby antenna, GREAT for you. That is at least in the spirit of the FCC, or whatever controls this digital changeover.
They want everyone to go digital but the ramp-up of the power to transmit is mostly non-existant. How can anyone go out and get digital OTA with a set top antenna like in the analogue days?
 Not everybody: Sorry FCC-you cannot have it both ways and expect a complete all-digital rollout.
I have digital tuners in both my sets but cannot use them without a large antenna outside my house and I find that distasteful and I want to keep peace with my neighbours in a planned community, bylaws (Gregg L) or not. A cable box for a handful of HD channels is a saner way (for me) to get the OTA HD.
Good for you and your little antenna...nice to know the system works as it was intended...but not all of us live in Milwaukee County.:)

sp44again

And you are the only one who lives in Kenosha county on this board.  Good for you!

louisd13

I'm In that southern little (Flodded!) paradise as well!!

gparris

Many members in the forum live inside the "realm" of easy or better digital reception.
This is why, at reduced power transmission levels, allowed  by the FCC,  HDTV set owners like sp44again get to put a set top mini-antenna and get use out of it. :)

Good for you.

The POINT is that the stations aren't doing everything to allow more of us to get their signal OTA without an outdoor antenna and make it easy for the average HDTV set owner to do a plug and play...like we cable owners do and will do with the HD DVR:D

We in Kenosha County are part of SE Wisconsin and like our Wisconsin stations more, perhaps, than the Illinois stations, at least for me, with the exception of maybe the WB station which I believe broadcasts in HD unlike the WB station in Milwaukee.:p

The POINT is that there are other counties in the SE Wisconsin area  than Milwaukee and this forum is equally a part of our "scene"
...maybe I should have been more clear for you, sp44again. Sorry. :blush:

tazman

I personaly don't care how you get your HD content Tom.  I won't look down upon you for it.  After all this is the Milwaukee HDTV forum RIGHT.;)

StarvingForHDTV

QuoteOriginally posted by mhz40
So in a nutshell, it's OK to put up an antenna.  Hear that Fox6?

:rofl:

gparris

It IS the Milwaukee HDTV forum and when-ever this area of Wisconsin gets to record HD
(even from cable) and we'll probably be called upon to answer questions from the subscribers not as tech-savy as we are as to what to do and what they DIDN'T do to make the box work and so on.

It will be just like the OTA concerns or STB box concerns that come in from "Newbies"...
What did I do wrong, how does it work, should I try it, etc.

 But it will be great time anyway. :)

I think everyone in the forum should get one who has at least the basic digital cable package and tell each other what they think and their concerns.
It is just a matter of getting the HD DVR to begin with.
The other thread addresses a June (later) date for delivery because TWC doesn't want ANY problems upon introduction rollout...just like they didn't want any with the SD version.:D

So let's wait (impatiently) and hope it comes out in 3-4 weeks with the LEAST amount of "bugs".:cool:

borghe

Tuesday Jun 01, 2004, 08:23:02 am #27 Last Edit: Tuesday Jun 01, 2004, 08:25:20 am by borghe
I think the only thing being said here, is what I was originally asking.. We need to stop with the antenna stuff when it comes to satellite as it is a non-issue. If DirecTV were to come to your house tomorrow and install a dish and antenna, you would get HD locals over your DirecTV STB. They might not be Milwaukee locals, but you would get HD locals nonetheless and still get to watch all the same HD shows you can watch now (actually more including WGN/WB).

I don't care about preference of antenna or not or your right to have it etc... We've been over all of that 100 times here. I am just saying the antenna is still being made into an issue for satellite HD reception by some on this board and it needs to stop because as of right now it is bordering on misinformation. Most readers of this board will be able to receive HD locals from an antenna (whether Chicago, Madison, or Milwaukee) and most satellite providers will install that antenna for either free or a nominal charge. If you don't want a rooftop antenna, that is certainly fine. But let's knock off arguing like it is based on any real point other than aesthetic preference, whether preference of looks or preference of local stations.