Should I switch??

[NET10]

I'm looking to save (like everyone else) and seeking some input from whomever is gracious enough to give it to me.  
I currently have DirecTV Choice package w/HD and TWC RR.  DirecTV is running about $85 and RR is about $42 monthly.
I got a call from TWC sales and he said I could get faster speeds on RR and a 250 channel package for a total of $78.  
The question is this: What would I be sacrificing by switching?

[Jack 1000]

I'm looking to save (like everyone else) and seeking some input from whomever is gracious enough to give it to me.  
I currently have Directive Choice package w/HD and TWC RR.  DirecTV is running about $85 and RR is about $42 monthly.
I got a call from TWC sales and he said I could get faster speeds on RR and a 250 channel package for a total of $78.  
The question is this: What would I be sacrificing by switching?

The Bad Side of TWC

The program guide from TWC and the quality of the DVR is not as good as Direct TV. if you came to TWC.  While improvements have been made to the guide over the years, the guide is still slow, the search engine is still below-average.

The Future of the Guide/DVR's/The roll the dice part of TWC

There are some updates planned for the guide coming in the next couple of months.  Try to get a Samsung box.  They are currently faster than the SA/Cisco models.   The software updates coming should improve the performance of the guide with new features and speed up the SA/Cisco boxes.  I know people with boxes that work for years, and others with boxes that crap out in a month.  Very much a crapshoot with the DVR's. Knowledge of Customer Service depends on with whom you speak to on the other end. However, you can call and ask for Tier 3 support, which are good, if you have problems with a level 1 CSR.

Registration with My Services which allows you to manage your account settings, optional on-line Bill Pay, use Remote DVR Manager and Contact Information is great, when it works.  It works good for me about 60-70% of the time.

The Good Side of TWC

They are great with renewing discount deals when your current promotional rate expires. The customer reps in our division at least are friendly, (and I have had TWC for over 25 years)   (For helpfulness, see above.)  Road Runner Internet Service and Digital Phone are outstanding!  Channel line up is great, no extra charge for HD service.  If you have the SD channel of any package, HD's equivalent is included at no charge. Free locals in HD. Start Over and Look Back with selected channels and shows.  Caller ID on TV for Digital Cable and Digital Phone subs included at no charge.  You don't get that with Direct TV.

Hope this helps!

Jack

PS.  If you call TWC, let them know your current package with Direct TV and I am sure they will offer a better deal.  Just before your deal expires, call back and get discounted again.  It works for us!

[gparris]

I'm looking to save (like everyone else) and seeking some input from whomever is gracious enough to give it to me.  
I currently have DirecTV Choice package w/HD and TWC RR.  DirecTV is running about $85 and RR is about $42 monthly.
I got a call from TWC sales and he said I could get faster speeds on RR and a 250 channel package for a total of $78.  
The question is this: What would I be sacrificing by switching?

You'd be sacrificing picture quality, IMO, as right now, TWC has well-maxed out its ability to provide clear, unpixelated HD channels, especially in action shots and lately, with all the basketball channels, any sort of stable picture for the complete run of the show.
Now, I know its not just me, my old neighbours in eastern Kenosha county are having the same messy pictures, so it's not just me.

TWC will tell you about the BS of rain fade, but that lasts a few minutes in a storm at best, but TWC will give you similar results anytime of the day or night, no extra charge. I had Directv before I moved and when I move (soon), I will get it again and just keep the RR for internet. My dish will be yard mounted so I can dust off the snow and that, again, is only in more extreme conditions.

I have both the 8300HD (works good and fast) and the 8300HDC (old 8300HD broke in other room).
The 8300HDC is very slow, works okay most of the time, but its a clunker compared to the 8300HD I still have in the other room.
Samsungs may work, but it all depends what the installer has in his truck at the time, based on some other folks I know that are "trying out" TWC.
Note if you have more than 1 DVR you will be charged the DVR fee $10 for every DVR you have vs. Directv's flat fee or the extra for whole-house DVR service.

The grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence, unless you have experienced it (like I have before), so it is up to you.

[Xizer]

Every consumer cable and satellite provider in North America has awful HDTV picture quality. Even Verizon FiOS is not immune as they have to re-encode all their satellite links to MPEG2. Many of the cable channels send out their channels to the cable/sat providers already bitrate starved. Discovery uses 6 Mbps H.264 satfeeds for example.

[tencom]

Every consumer cable and satellite provider in North America has awful HDTV picture quality. Even Verizon FiOS is not immune as they have to re-encode all their satellite links to MPEG2. Many of the cable channels send out their channels to the cable/sat providers already bitrate starved. Discovery uses 6 Mbps H.264 satfeeds for example.

Xizer is correct to point out the deficeincies, in HD reproduction, is mostly the fault of the program providers not so much a fault of the distributors  like TWC. As it requires more expense to downgrade the bit rate to a lower  number. Both OTA and national  Programmers are guilty as it frees more satellite and OTA bandwidth, to squeeze in more video streams, as most viewers would rather have more channels then good HD.                                                                           The best source for HD is Blu-Ray which has a bit rate as high as 35 Megabits Per Second  far exceeding  any broadcasters bit rate and uses, in most cases more effficient video codecs then MPEG-2.

[Xizer]

It's only the big broadcast networks that have good satellite uplinks;

NBC has feeds on satellite ranging from 17-25 Mbps H.264; CBS has a 36 Mbps MPEG2 satellite feed; and ABC has a 25 Mbps H.264 feed. You can pick them up if you buy a big satellite dish and free-to-air equipment.

Unfortunately, this selection of beautiful Blu-ray quality feeds get thoroughly molested by the local affiliates and usually even further by the consumer cable and satellite providers. Milwaukee's CBS is a particularly tragic story; they take the beautiful 36 Mbps national CBS satellite feed and re-encode it down to 9 Mbps before sending it out over the air and to Time Warner Cable.

[Talos4]

I had to change from D* to TWC. No choice in the matter.

D* customer since 1997.

In my opinion go to D*. and keep the RR.

The only benefit I've seen from the switch? I now get BBC America HD. THAT'S IT!

No NFL Network, no HDNET, and several other channels I can't think of off the top of my head.

Hardware doesn't even come close to comparison. D* has much better hardware.

The HR23 and HR24 superior DVR's compared to the ONE that I have with crapigator software. Larger HD for more capacity. Better response time.

D* guide GUI isn't that great BUT, it searches better, you can customize channel lineups and channels are better organized.

TWC has a mess of a channel structure with at least 3-4 different tiers with duplicates in SD and HD that you cannot filter out of the guide to make surfing better.
 
There is no comparing PQ. D* wins hands down, even factoring in the bit starved network transmissions. It just does.

With any Sat service, you're not sharing a feed with several hundred thousand people that ends up degrading, pixelating or in some cases just flat out telling you "Channel not available try again later"

Just my $.02 worth.

[Xizer]

There is a major problem with the satellite services like DirecTV though: no cablecard support, and no way to grab your transport streams off your DVR!

So you're stuck with a DVR with a crappy little hard drive and you have to constantly worry about running out of space... this is unlike cable where you can back your stuff up to a PC and archive it forever.

With HDTV this is an increasing problem because a lot of material is still "HDTV channel" exclusive material not available on Blu-ray. Blu-ray doesn't seem like it's going to achieve the insane market share DVD managed so the only way to see a lot of content in HD still is through HDTV recordings.

[budda]

There is a major problem with the satellite services like DirecTV though: no cablecard support, and no way to grab your transport streams off your DVR!

So you're stuck with a DVR with a crappy little hard drive and you have to constantly worry about running out of space... this is unlike cable where you can back your stuff up to a PC and archive it forever.

With HDTV this is an increasing problem because a lot of material is still "HDTV channel" exclusive material not available on Blu-ray. Blu-ray doesn't seem like it's going to achieve the insane market share DVD managed so the only way to see a lot of content in HD still is through HDTV recordings.

Dish now allows external HD drives at no extra cost, so you can add a 1 TB HD on your DVR if you want. VIP622, VIP722K, and so on. I also have firure out how to record off that HD, but that's another subject. FYI

[Olias]

There is a major problem with the satellite services like DirecTV though: no cablecard support, and no way to grab your transport streams off your DVR!

Unless you're a geek like me. I use two HD-PVRs and SageTV to capture the D* content from a pair of non DVR D* receivers to our PC server.  I also have two OTA antennas (one pointed towards Milwaukee, one towards Madison) for the local stations and a unified guide that seamlessly combines the sources.

This gives me virtually unlimited storage (up to 6TB so far) 100% DRM free. I have three HD extenders at our three TV's and use them to view D*, playon, netflix, home videos, home pictures, our DVD library, Pandora, and all of our music files.
When our house phone rings, it even pauses whatever is on the screen and pops up the calle'rs number (and a picture, if I've provided it) for a few seconds.

The downside is the HD content from D* is a touch "softer" than a direct feed from a D* dvr, but it appears to my eyes to still be better than our local cable provider, Charter.

This approach is certainly not for everyone. I've invested a lot of hours tweaking this system to work just the way I (and the wife) want it.

[Xizer]

HD-PVR is not an adequate solution.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I'm the bigger geek because I prefer to have the raw, untouched transport streams - I.E. the exact signal the cable companies send out saved to the file that's stored on your DVR.

Those HD-PVR boxes take a recording that's already been compressed multiple times down the distribution line from channel broadcasting headquarters to cable/consumer satellite company and compress it AGAIN just to get it off the box. Not to mention you have to play back the whole episode to get it off the box - instead of being able to grab the entire thing off of there in seconds. And you have to bring all the commercials over unless you want to babysit. 60 minutes * hundreds of episodes - uhh, yeesh.

At this point you'd just be better off grabbing pirated copies of all your favorite TV shows to archive. They'd end up being better quality anyway.

[budda]

HD-PVR is not an adequate solution.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I'm the bigger geek because I prefer to have the raw, untouched transport streams - I.E. the exact signal the cable companies send out saved to the file that's stored on your DVR.

Those HD-PVR boxes take a recording that's already been compressed multiple times down the distribution line from channel broadcasting headquarters to cable/consumer satellite company and compress it AGAIN just to get it off the box. Not to mention you have to play back the whole episode to get it off the box - instead of being able to grab the entire thing off of there in seconds. And you have to bring all the commercials over unless you want to babysit. 60 minutes * hundreds of episodes - uhh, yeesh.

At this point you'd just be better off grabbing pirated copies of all your favorite TV shows to archive. They'd end up being better quality anyway.

  This is not about you. This is a question asked by NET10. Anybody who likes to play with this stuff. Would agree that uncompressed and unconverted HD gives the best picture. That was not the question. I will break it down for you. Which service should he/she switch to if they switch.

  When this web site started OTA was sweet, now it's watered down, but still looks good. But the site has moved on. A lot of discussion is whats the best out there, for the best price, FIOS, UVERSE, RR, Charter, DISH, DTV, OTA. And what works best for each person. Years ago this is what everybody wanted, more offerings. I can say I never saw it coming. TV's got better and the signal would get worse. Please if you have Ideas on how someone can get better TV for less money and hassle start a thread and lets play. But I hope it's more then just a Blueray player. And a 12 foot dish with 10 channels. And a computer and torrent account. Please wow me. Peace..

[Olias]

HD-PVR is not an adequate solution.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I'm the bigger geek because I prefer to have the raw, untouched transport streams - I.E. the exact signal the cable companies send out saved to the file that's stored on your DVR.

I totally agree, I too wish there was an easy way to get the exact feed out. There is a mod for Dish receivers that ties into SageTV that gives you the raw feed, but I'm not a Dish user. But what bothers me even more is DRM protected cable channels that limit what I can do with my recorded TV. My setup bypasses that whole headache. When traveling, we dump a boatload of movies on our laptop to view. It doesn't matter if it was recorded from a "protected" channel or not.

Those HD-PVR boxes take a recording that's already been compressed multiple times down the distribution line from channel broadcasting headquarters to cable/consumer satellite company and compress it AGAIN just to get it off the box.

...what's one more conversion between friends? But in reality, even though my mind knows it's not an exact feed, I don't really see much of a difference. The H.264 encoder on the HD-PVRs is very good.

Not to mention you have to play back the whole episode to get it off the box - instead of being able to grab the entire thing off of there in seconds. And you have to bring all the commercials over unless you want to babysit. 60 minutes * hundreds of episodes - uhh, yeesh.

I don't think I was clear enough on this point. I don't do anything that you've mentioned above. My D* boxes do not record anything. They aren't recorders. Everything is streamed "real time" (well, about 3 seconds delay) from the boxes to the server. I turn the TV on, go to the guide, pick the channel and start watching; no muss, no fuss.

And I forgot to mention, I have comskip working on the fly, to mark the commercials. Here's what I end up doing a lot. I tell Sage to record a particular one hour show, and then I sit down to watch it about 20 minutes after it's started. By then the first few commercial breaks are marked and Sage skips through them automatically. By the end of the show I'm pretty much caught up and I haven't wasted 15 minutes of my life watching commercials.

As time goes on, I find myself watching less and less "live" TV (except for sports). Sage is set to automatically record my favorite shows. My wife likes old movies and I have Sage automatically search the guide for anything with Judy Garland, Shirley Temple, Fred Astair, Bing Crosby, etc. When it finds a movie with one of these actors that hasn't been recorded yet, it schedules the recording. After two years of doing this, we've built up a HUGE collection of classic movies.

Friday night has become "classic movie night" at our household. We plop down in front of the TV and have TONs of movies to choose from.

At this point you'd just be better off grabbing pirated copies of all your favorite TV shows to archive. They'd end up being better quality anyway.

Yep, if I had to spend ANY extra time downloading or converting, you're correct.
But I don't.

PLUSES: Virtually unlimited, commercial free,DRM free recordings.
MINUSES: Cost, non-perfect HD captures.

It's a trade-off I'm willing to make. As I said before, it's certainly not the approach for everyone.

[NET10]

I forgot what my question was......

Thanks for all of the input.

[Olias]

...what a tanged web we weave.