Second Antenna For Chicago Stations

[ScottyB]

Hello all,

I live in Racine (53406), 25 miles from the Milwaukee antennas.  I am currently using a Terk HDTVA indoor antenna and it has worked great over the last year or so.  I get 95%-100% on all Milwaukee stations and somehow also get 80% on 50-1 WPWR from Chicago.

I am interested in adding a second antenna to receive the remainder of the Chicago OTA broadcasts, located between 58-61 miles from my location.  And this is where my question lies...

Can I simply mount an antenna outdoors (say a ChannelMaster 2020) and splice it into my current setup?  If not, what might be the easiest way to get the Chicago stations?

Thanks for reading,
Scott

[ArgMeMatey]

I would just try a combiner, aka a two-way splitter in reverse.  See what happens.  

If that doesn't work, you will want to note the problems, compare actual frequencies you want to receive from different sources, and see if you can use bandpass filters.  

If there's a significant difference in signal levels, you could try different directional couplers (DCs)  to get more signal out of the Chicago antenna and a little less from Milwaukee.  

Any time you are combining multiple antennas it's VERY helpful to have a signal strength meter.  Seems I've read you can do some stuff now with an ATSC PC tuner and software programs.  Actual test equipment isn't usually practical for DIYers due to the cost.  

Make sure your couplers are rated for the frequencies you need.  Some very old ones go only to 300 MHz, for example.

[JohnRacine]

Hi Scott,

I live just south of you at KR and Hwy 31 (I've calculated that I am 53 miles from the antennas on top of the Sears Tower in Chicago.  I have a $20, very small Radio Shack antenna (no amplifier) on a short tripod on my roof.  It's mounted on a rotor that I bought at Menards.  I have found that it doesn't matter which direction the antenna is pointed...I receive all channels from both Milwaukee and Chicago all the time (no break-ups or signal loss).  The antenna is designed to be directional, but it receives signals equally well off of both ends.  Too bad I wasted my money on a rotor as I never use it.  I leave the antenna pointed slightly east of south at all times and all channels, from both cities, are clear and sharp.

The only strange item is this: Prior to the transition to all digital broadcast, I never received 2-1 (CBS out of Chicago), but all other channels came in perfectly.  Immediately after the switch to digital, 2-1 now comes in 100% of the time but 7-1 (WLS-ABC) does not register at all (even with several re-scans).  I can't explain why 7-1 is lost from my Direct TV box (and from my SONY 50" tuner), but, it's gone.  Even stranger, 7-1 comes in fine on my bedroom TV that is connected to a cheap converter box (from Walmart).  Why the cheap converter box receives 7-1 while my Direct TV box (and TV tuner) do not is a complete mystery to me (both are connected to the same antenna through a splitter in the basement).  Why would an almost free digital converter box capture the signal from 7-1 while the Direct TV box and the TV tuner cannot?

Given your zip code, you must be fairly near my house.  So, perhaps you could just use one antenna (a really small, cheap one), point it toward Chicago, and you'll likely receive all channels, from both cities, with now issues (except for maybe 7-1). By the way, before I climbed up on the roof to mount the little antenna, I had it laying on the bed in my spare bedroom...it worked just as well there.  I probably could have just laid the antenna on my attic floor and skipped putting it on the roof.

Hope this helps,

John

[ArgMeMatey]

7-1 (WLS-ABC) does not register at all (even with several re-scans).  I can't explain why 7-1 is lost from my Direct TV box (and from my SONY 50" tuner), but, it's gone.  Even stranger, 7-1 comes in fine on my bedroom TV that is connected to a cheap converter box (from Walmart).  Why the cheap converter box receives 7-1 while my Direct TV box (and TV tuner) do not is a complete mystery to me (both are connected to the same antenna through a splitter in the basement).  Why would an almost free digital converter box capture the signal from 7-1 while the Direct TV box and the TV tuner cannot?

Based on what I see at tvfool.com, it looks like 7-1 is on actual channel 7, so it may be getting interference from the two other channels using channel 7.  I can't tell you why it's different in other spots, though.  I would try interchanging the three devices to see if the difference is the tuner or the cabling to that specific location.

[ScottyB]

Thanks everyone for the responses, especially John.  I live on Hwy 31 and County C (Spring Rd), so about 5 miles north of you.  I only have a single-story home, so the roof may be my only option if I want Chicago stations.  Although I might try the attic if the antenna is small enough.

May I ask which antenna you use?

Glad to hear it is possible with only one antenna.  Looks like I have a little experimenting to do.  I'll report back if I ever get this figured out.  Might be a while with the ice on the roof and all!

Thanks again, and anyone else please feel free to add advice!

Scott

[JohnRacine]

Hi Scott,

I bought the little antenna at Radio Shack about 5 years ago...I don't know the model number.  It is about 18" in length, has a V on one end (might be called "Yagi"), and it has a total of 16 small elements - 8 on the boom and 8 on the V.  I paid just under $20.  I don't have an amp and have about 35' of coax running to my Direct TV box.  I think the antenna weighs only a pound or two.  I've got it pointed about 5 degrees east of due south.  All channels from Chicago (minus 7-1) and all channels from Milwaukee are received with no dropouts.  I never use the rotor.

Since you are only 5 miles north of me, I'd go with a small, inexpensive antenna and try it in your attic first.  That might be all you need.  Like I said, I wasted my money on a rotor as it's not used.  Somehow, this antenna pulls in stations off of the back end almost as well as the front.  Other guys know way more than I do about why this is so.

Good luck to you...if you are able to receive Chicago channels, you'll never watch Milwaukee TV again.  Chicago never puts up weather graphics, and their weather forecasters are oriented toward the science side as opposed to the Milwaukee weather people who I think are more into entertainment, ratings and trying to make us afraid of what I view as normal winter weather.  Another plus is that PBS 11-1 does not use side curtains like 10-1 does (for the identical program).  You always get HD programming that fills the entire screen.  I also think that the audio from 11-1 is more crisp.

Start small and enjoy,

John

[AA9VI]

Based on what I see at tvfool.com, it looks like 7-1 is on actual channel 7, so it may be getting interference from the two other channels using channel 7.  I can't tell you why it's different in other spots, though.  I would try interchanging the three devices to see if the difference is the tuner or the cabling to that specific location.

WLS is on VHF 7 and UHF 44 now.  They had too many reception complaints on VHF 7 from the apartment dwellers in the loop.  They will be off VHF 7 in a few months. 44 works very well and is the the permanent channel for WLS-DT.

BTW, pointing it towards the weaker stations mostly works... I point towards Milwaukee from Northbrook and get Chicago off the back end (25 miles away) just fine.  I get a few breakups from Chicago when I do that, but not very often.

I miss WITI and WCGV.  Ever since the local turds on WCHU and W25DW signed on I lost them and they were CRYSTAL CLEAR.

[ScottyB]

Thanks again.  I'll experiment with antennas after Christmas, and if all goes well (or not), I'll post my results!

Scott

[Tivoman44]

Has anyone ever gotten Chicago stations up in Milwaukee?  I am thinking NFL, the Chicago market in addition to Milwaukee/Greenbay.  

This brings me to my next question having to do with the original question above.  I am thinking of dumping TWC and just going OTA.  I am in Glendale, so very close to the towers.  I tested a converter box with just a coax connected to Antenna in and lots of the channels seemed to work, but not that great so I need an indoor antenna, some sort of rabbit ears.  Does anyone have an suggestions?

[ArgMeMatey]

I tested a converter box with just a coax connected to Antenna in and lots of the channels seemed to work, but not that great so I need an indoor antenna, some sort of rabbit ears.  Does anyone have an suggestions?

Try an unamplified UHF bowtie or loop first.  There are some build-your-own plans online, otherwise you can buy a cheapo. I got a decent one at Big Lots for $2.50 and I probably overpaid.

[ScottyB]

Has anyone ever gotten Chicago stations up in Milwaukee?  I am thinking NFL, the Chicago market in addition to Milwaukee/Greenbay.  

This brings me to my next question having to do with the original question above.  I am thinking of dumping TWC and just going OTA.  I am in Glendale, so very close to the towers.  I tested a converter box with just a coax connected to Antenna in and lots of the channels seemed to work, but not that great so I need an indoor antenna, some sort of rabbit ears.  Does anyone have an suggestions?

Good choice - I canceled TWC over a year ago and haven't looked back.  About 1/2 of what we watch is OTA or DVD.  The other half is streaming video over the internet (hulu, netflix, etc...) output to our HDTV.  My wife says it's one of the best ideas I've ever come up with.

Any non-amplified indoor antenna should work if you are that close to the towers.  All Milwaukee stations are UHF other than 10.1 (PBS) which is VHF.  Hate to admit it, but Milwaukee is fortunate to have one of the rare PBS stations that actually has decent shows on it, and if you have kids, it's a must.  So you may want to look at a VHF/UHF antenna.

Ignore any reference to HDTV antennas - it's a marketing gimmick.  Any antenna can pick up HD signals.  I use the Terk HDTVA, (which is amplified) but they have plenty of unamplified versions.

Which ever antenna you choose, I would buy it locally (Radio Shack or Best Buy) in case it doesn't work out and you need to return it.  For whatever reason, some antennas work better than others in various locations.

Helpful links:
Radio Shack Indoor Antennas
Best Buy Indoor Antennas

Hope that helps,
Scott

[bschlafer]

I'll second what Scott said.  

Dump TWC, you won't miss it.  Almost anything you want that isn't OTA can be found on the Internet, to be viewed on your computer or streamed to your DTV.  The money you'll save will pay for some nice upgrades too.

However, TWC has recently raised it's rates for Roadrunner.  Somehow my bill went from $35 to over $50 for 7mb/s service.  When I inquired about this they said that my "introductory rate" had expired.  This was news to me, since I've had Roadrunner for years, and don't recall hearing about any "introductory rate" nor did I find any reference to it in any of the original paperwork from the install.  I grew tired of the argument and finally gave up.  I do have to give them props for great download/upload speeds and I can't recall ever having any service interruptions.  So I guess it's worth it.

This website will tell you what type of antenna you will need, based on your location and the stations you wish to receive: http://www.tvfool.com/

I have a homebuilt antenna mounted in my apartment attic (in Sussex) and receive all the Milwaukee stations at 80-90% signal strength.  The one nice thing about DTV is that the antenna doesn't have to be very large to receive local stations.  Mine is a UHF "bowtie" reflector, approximately 16" x 18" in size.  Attic mounting is a good way to go (if you are close enough) because you don't have to worry about damage from weather, or birds, and the likelihood of lightning strike is greatly reduced.


Good luck!

*Bill

[Gilbert]

FYI - WBBM went from channel 3 at 4.4 kilowatts on Hancock, burdened by atmospheric interference, and went to channel 12, at 8 kilowatts. They went up another 300', essentially doubled their power, and the top part of the VHF band is easier to get than the lower half with digital, due to less noise there.

WLS is on channel 7 at 4.4 kilowatts, but will be signing off in the not too distant future, as others have mentioned. And WBBM's HD is VERY impressive.

[benski007]

However, TWC has recently raised it's rates for Roadrunner.  Somehow my bill went from $35 to over $50 for 7mb/s service.  When I inquired about this they said that my "introductory rate" had expired.  This was news to me, since I've had Roadrunner for years, and don't recall hearing about any "introductory rate" nor did I find any reference to it in any of the original paperwork from the install.  I grew tired of the argument and finally gave up.  I do have to give them props for great download/upload speeds and I can't recall ever having any service interruptions.  So I guess it's worth it.

Bill -

TWC did the same thing to me with Roadrunner.  My bill went from $38.95 to $49.95 a month for the 7mb/s service too.  They told me that my introductory rate had expired also.  All you have to do is call TWC back and ask to be transferred to their retention department.  The customer service rep. wouldn't transfer me unless I said I was willing to cancel.  When they finally transferred me, the retention rep was extremely helpful and renewed the $38.95 rate for another year.  She said all I would have to do in a year is call back again and they would renew it again.  Take care.

~Ben

[bschlafer]

Thanks Ben!  I'll give it a shot.


*Bill