MPTV's HD

[ddysart]

Someone please answer why MPTV has gotten HD TV so wrong when they used to get it right?

Case in point, my children enjoy two programs I know for a fact are sent from PBS in HD - Sid the Science Kid and Super Why.  They used to watch these in HD on 36.1.

Now they are broadcast on 10.1, but shown in SD with the obnoxious columns on the sides.  Here is the kicker - the content is still 16x9.  I notice text being cropped by the columns in some of the promos before these programs ("This program brought to you by...").

Do they even watch their own own feed?

[StarvingForHDTV]

Do they even watch their own own feed?

I don't think so.  The evidence is overwhelming.

[Talos4]

That's for sure.

I stopped trying to watch anything on MPTV.

That little HD icon is just for decoration down there

[Snoogins]

It's funny you should bring this up, because it's been bugging me as well.

As is the case with the original post, I also record kids shows off of 510 on TWC, namely 'WordGirl' (don't laugh, it's actually funny at times).  The weird thing is - I only record the show once a day in the same timeslot (3:30p), and sometimes it's in HD and other times it's not. :eek:

I'm sure someone here has an explanation for this, but I'm totally befuddled.  How can a station just change, seemingly randomly, from broadcasting a show in HD vs. SD on a day-to-day basis?!  I just don't get it...

...I guess nobody at MPTV does either, from what I've read here in the past.

[bimmer_immer]

For a real treat, try watching the non-HD Ch 10 feed on cable or satellite.
Sometimes it seems to get the double whammy of showing a widescreen presentation letter boxed and pillar boxed TWICE.  So you end up with a postage-stamp-sized picture.

My guess is that some widescreen content is actually not HD.
It's widescreen standard definition -- 720x480 (think DVD).
My further guess is that they have a policy or hardware limitation that says "anything not HD is to be pillar-boxed" (columns on the sides) for the viewer's convenience.

So when watching 10.1 on a widescreen TV, you get the original widescreen content with letter-boxing added to convert to 4x3 and then pillar-boxing added to convert to 16x9.

This is why they invented "zoom" on most TV's -- which is what I do.
This works ok, but some resolution is lost in the process.

Seems asinine, ain'a?

I don't know that bashing them on the head will help though.
They either don't care or are incompetent.

[Jack 1000]

I don't know that bashing them on the head will help though.
They either don't care or are incompetent.

I rarely watch Public Television.  They may not have the:

• resources
• technology
• people

who understand HD broadcasts and its proper transmission.  The demographics of most PBS watchers are little kids watching programs such as Sesame Street, or the 65+ retirees who live once a year for the PBS Auction, or the Lawrence Welk reruns.  This type of population is not exactly the HD TV type.  

Perhaps PBS does not want to put the time and money into a network that skews these types of demographics.  This is not to be negatively biased in suggesting reaching these types of demographics is a bad thing.  However, it seems that the general population watching most PBS broadcasts don't care about HD.  PBS Stations are not a big deal for the HD demographic and can't compete with the big commercial networks like NBC, CBS, FOX, or ABC. Or the big cable giants like Fox, ESPN, Premium networks like HBO and so forth.

The pre-schoolers and 70-80 year old grandparents whom most PBS stations target are not HD savvy people, so in the minds of the station, they probably don't care whether their HD programs are working right or not.  When 75% of PBS's audience can't tell the difference, I think that the station doesn't care.

It was said when HD first came to PBS, they did a good job.  However, you have to have the audience that cares enough to maintain the equipment and the technology.  Most of the little kids and retirees watching public television just want to see a picture and hear the sound, that's it.

Jack

[Nels Harvey]

I rarely watch Public Television.  They may not have the:

• resources
• technology
• people

who understand HD broadcasts and its proper transmission.  
Jack

As a retired Engineer for Ch. 10/36, I can assure you that the stations are on the leading edge as far as the resources, people, and technology of HD is concerned.

The Chief Engineer sits on national HD groups and is known Nationwide for his expertise regarding digital broadcasting.

Ch. 36 was the FIRST station to transmit a digital signal in the Nation!   It was experimental, with the Zenith people in Chicago receiving the test from Milwaukee.   Now the Zenith modulation method isn't the final, as we know it, digital system, but it was a development attempt.

The stations also have the only HD capable remote truck in Milwaukee.   It may still be the only one in the State.   The recent Auction was done in HD from that truck!   Sporting events are normally done with rented HD trucks that travel the nation.  The Ch. 10 HD remote truck has been used for several years by area stations for various events, like the fireworks displays in order to produce it in HD.

The stations also produce their local programs in HD.   Both studio and field cameras  are HD.   The station's routing switchers, recorders, editors, and entire facility is capable of HD.   I think this is the only station in Milwaukee that can say that!  

Another station in Milwaukee is doing news in HD, with field reporters proudly proclaiming their HD, while their field shots are still dismal SD!

The only explanation for the letter boxes and the pillar boxes on their air that I can see is that is the way the signals are received from the PBS satellite.   In other words, there isn't a whole lot the station can do about it until the entire network is fully HD equipped.   Remember, many PBS stations tend to be poor, and aren't as far along as our stations here in Milwaukee!   I think Ch. 10/36 deserve an 'attaboy' for the fine job that has been done to upgrade their facility.

[Jack 1000]

As a retired Engineer for Ch. 10/36, I can assure you that the stations are on the leading edge as far as the resources, people, and technology of HD is concerned.

The Chief Engineer sits on national HD groups and is known Nationwide for his expertise regarding digital broadcasting.

Ch. 36 was the FIRST station to transmit a digital signal in the Nation!   It was experimental, with the Zenith people in Chicago receiving the test from Milwaukee.   Now the Zenith modulation method isn't the final, as we know it, digital system, but it was a development attempt.

The stations also have the only HD capable remote truck in Milwaukee.   It may still be the only one in the State.   The recent Auction was done in HD from that truck!   Sporting events are normally done with rented HD trucks that travel the nation.  The Ch. 10 HD remote truck has been used for several years by area stations for various events, like the fireworks displays in order to produce it in HD.

The stations also produce their local programs in HD.   Both studio and field cameras  are HD.   The station's routing switchers, recorders, editors, and entire facility is capable of HD.   I think this is the only station in Milwaukee that can say that!  

Another station in Milwaukee is doing news in HD, with field reporters proudly proclaiming their HD, while their field shots are still dismal SD!

The only explanation for the letter boxes and the pillar boxes on their air that I can see is that is the way the signals are received from the PBS satellite.   In other words, there isn't a whole lot the station can do about it until the entire network is fully HD equipped.   Remember, many PBS stations tend to be poor, and aren't as far along as our stations here in Milwaukee!   I think Ch. 10/36 deserve an 'attaboy' for the fine job that has been done to upgrade their facility.

Thanks for the clarifications!  It certainly put to rest any stereotypes about PBS and HD TV.  Now, what is needed as an investigation into the problems that the users are having.  It certainly could be a satellite related issue.

Jack

[bimmer_immer]

The only explanation for the letter boxes and the pillar boxes on their air that I can see is that is the way the signals are received from the PBS satellite.   In other words, there isn't a whole lot the station can do about it until the entire network is fully HD equipped.

What you say doesn't ring true.

Case in point:
36.1 used to show Motorweek in widescreen.
From the PQ, it seemed to be widescreen SD.
After 36.1 & 10.1 swapped places, Motorweek on 10.1 was window-boxed.
Did Maryland Public TV or PBS coincidentally change the format at this same time?
Don't think so.
At the present time, 10.1 shows a 4:3 version of Motorweek (with pillars) so it's not as annoying as it used to be. But we are not getting the widescreen.


This is not the only program with this problem -- just  a convenient example.

[duncantuna]

The demographics of most PBS watchers are little kids watching programs such as Sesame Street, or the 65+ retirees who live once a year for the PBS Auction, or the Lawrence Welk reruns.  This type of population is not exactly the HD TV type.  

I think that stereotype is incorrect.   Half their audience is 18-49.  -- And 40% have incomes > $75k -- plenty wealthy to own a HDTV.  Generally speaking, PBS watchers are far wealthier than the average TV viewer.



Here's some PBS demos:

A Typical PBS Audience:
Demographics

51.7% of total adult viewers are between 18-49 years of age

48.3% of total adult viewers are 50+

58.1% of viewers are married

50.7% of audience is male; 49.3% is female

13.0% of viewers are of Spanish/Hispanic origin

63.1% of audience use the Internet

38.1% of total adult viewers have one or more college degrees

67.7% of audience votes
Financial Characteristics

46.3% have a household income of $50,000+

27.2% have a household income of $75,000+

13.2% have a household income of $100,000+

74.9% of viewing households have an ATM card, 48.9% have an IRA/Keogh account, 72.8% are homeowners, 30.7% have auto loans, and 27.9% have liquid assets in excess of $100,000

[vegasvic]

Given all the "experience" they supposedly have it's even more amazing their HD is so screwed up.

[StarvingForHDTV]

My best guess is that they don't watch their output feed where they control things.  Maybe we should buy them a little TV so they can see what we are seeing.

It also seems that some days/times things are done right.  So it may be that certain staff members are much better than others.

[Jack 1000]

My best guess is that they don't watch their output feed where they control things.  Maybe we should buy them a little TV so they can see what we are seeing.

It also seems that some days/times things are done right.  So it may be that certain staff members are much better than others.

What about the equipment and the venue from which the signal is broadcast?  I don't think that is something that can be overlooked either.

Jack

[ArgMeMatey]

Might be worth a call to Ellis Bromberg to suggest a 10-36 engineering blog.  I am sure those folks are more interested in experimenting and fixing than sharing, but I agree that it is perplexing to wonder why it is this way, then that way, and then which is the best compromise.  

Although many on this site have been doing experiments of their own for years, as previously noted it's going to take a while for the stations to work out all the technical bugs.  I'm going to reserve judgment until the "final transition" in a little over a month.  

Reminds me of my time in the cellular business when we were trying to look good for AT&T wireless, but for technical reasons on AT&T's side, we could not give our subscribers Caller ID on calls coming in from AT&T's network.  Anybody who understood the difference between MF trunking and SS7 got it instantly, but most people would just be, if not angry, flummoxed by the irony.  

Likewise, this site could use a broadcast engineer's solid technical explanation, as we have seen before, that can be disseminated down closer to what a layman like me might understand.

[ddysart]

As a retired Engineer for Ch. 10/36, I can assure you that the stations are on the leading edge as far as the resources, people, and technology of HD is concerned.

Nels - This is exactly why I am baffled.  I remember most HD broadcasts by other locals point to 10/36 as the ones doing the engineering.  For people that got it so right for so long, it seems that during the channel shift something fell through the cracks.

Again, this is programming I know is in HD.  The Ch10-1 pillars cover up graphics in the shows intro.

And yes, watching the Ch 10 content on Dish networks version is a joke.