Milwaukee area frequencys after the change

[TT123]

I have a tough time with the UHF frequencies because of a hill, trees and signal defusion. I found this and wonder what is happening in our area after the change.

FICTION; I will need to replace my current TV antenna to receive HDTV.

FACT; If your current antenna can receive both VHF(2-13) and UHF(14-69) TV signals, and is in proper working order, it is unlikely a change will be necessary.

Because of widespread misunderstanding many people will purchase two antennas. The first antenna will be purchased as an HDTV antenna. This antenna will be a UHF TV antenna. The well meaning dealer who sold the HDTV antenna thought all HDTV signals would be broadcast on the UHF band.

I believe for the most part this is an honest mistake. All broadcasters are required to broadcast their traditional analog signal until February 2009. At the same time they are also required to broadcast their new HDTV/Digital signal. Because of the limits in channel space allotted for television broadcasting, most HDTV channels are temporarily assigned to UHF channels, and will permanently be assigned in February 2009. At this time many of the HDTV channels currently broadcasting on the UHF(14-69) frequency will return to the VHF(2-13) frequency.

The fact of the matter is, there is no difference between a traditional TV antenna and a HDTV antenna. Although some people would like you to think there is, this simply isn't true.

When choosing your antenna for HDTV, use the same guide lines used for selecting a traditional antenna. Consider the antenna quality, size, range, and how much money you are willing to spend and in most cases be sure it's VHF/UHF capable. Remember if it sounds to good to be true, it probably is.

Denny is considered to be an expert in his field. He has been installing TV antennas for nearly twenty years. His website TV Antenna Source at http://www.dennysantennaservice.com is full of helpful tips and useful information for the do-it-yourself TV antenna installer.

[AndrewP]

Check it at tvfool.com

[troyriley]

Here are the frequencies after the change (whenever it will finally be):

WTMJ-4 (28 Digital)
WITI-6 (33D)
WMVS-10 (8D)
WISN-12 (34D)
WVTV-18 (18D)
WCGV-24 (25D)
WVCY-30 (22D)
WMVT-36 (35D)
WBME-49 (48D)
WPXE-55 (40D)
WDJT-58 (46D)

That's a range of channels 8 through 48, with one station remaining on VHF-high and the rest on UHF. Nothing will be on 2-6, which would require a larger antenna. A UHF antenna is a must, and most do an adequate job at picking up the high VHF channels (WMVS on . If you're not able to pick up WMVS with a UHF antenna, an antenna designed for the high VHF will also be required, or a VHF/UHF combo antenna.

[AA9VI]

You have to be pretty far out for the hill and trees to be an issue.  ATSC (digital) TV has error correction and buffering (like windows media player sort of) so if you had some minor ghosts or snow, you will be OK with the digital picture.  How far out are you?

Here's a good reference for analog vs digital coverage in Milwaukee:
http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/maps_report1/Milwaukee_WI.pdf

[TT123]

We are in Brookfield 12 miles and the tx's are at 68 and 70 degrees.
One thing we have going for us is we re on top of a hill.

[WPXE ION]

We are in Brookfield 12 miles and the tx's are at 68 and 70 degrees.
One thing we have going for us is we re on top of a hill.

You should have good signal there especially if you are on top of a hill.

A few monthe ago I did signal testing near the TW Headend right there by 94 and Gurkies (sp) Corner and got all stations in Milwaukee rock solid. I had a small UHF/VHF antenna mounted on a 15 foot pole, didn't even have to get the antenna up more than 10ft to get a good signal.

Are you using an outdoor antenna or indoor rabbit ears type?

[John L]

Most Milwaukee TV stations are now broadcasting on UHF.  I remember 40 some years ago people in this town of Milwaukee were "VHF Only orientated".  I mean thats all they care about the most. Forget about WVTV, channel 18...its just a stupid UHF station with nothing but RERUNS all the time.  People put up outdoor antennas on the roof. Cable TV was only limited to small towns far far away from the nearest big city with OTA stations.   I recall some people refuse to go out of their way to set up special antennas to get WVTV and WMVT, but rather put a rotor on the large VHF antenna to get WGN-TV Chicago.

I guess one of the big reasons WXIX-TV, channel 18 lost CBS affiliation to independent TV station WITI-TV, ch. 6, because ch. 6 is on VHF and channel 18 was on UHF. Many TV sets in those days did not have a UHF tuner. Like today's DTV Converter box....those old TV sets require a UHF Box and turn to ch. 3 to watch WXIX-TV, or WUHF-TV and now WVTV, ch. 18.

But now cable covers most areas today and also satellite TV widely available making it easier to view ch. 18.  But then back in those days WVTV, ch. 18 put out only 300,000 watts on a 500 ft tower. Today its analog is 5,000,000 watts on a 1010 ft tower. Big vast difference.  But that will be gone in a couple of weeks.  Channel 4, 6, and 12 each put out their DTV signal at 1,000,000 watts and WVTV has applied to increase their ERP to 1,000,000 watts and perhaps that is all part of their upcoming frequency change from ch. 61 to ch. 18.

-John L.

[John L]

Here are the frequencies after the change (whenever it will finally be):

WTMJ-4 (28 Digital)
WITI-6 (33D)
WMVS-10 (8D)
WISN-12 (34D)
WVTV-18 (18D)
WCGV-24 (25D)
WVCY-30 (22D)
WMVT-36 (35D)
WBME-49 (48D)
WPXE-55 (40D)
WDJT-58 (46D)

That's a range of channels 8 through 48, with one station remaining on VHF-high and the rest on UHF. Nothing will be on 2-6, which would require a larger antenna. A UHF antenna is a must, and most do an adequate job at picking up the high VHF channels (WMVS on . If you're not able to pick up WMVS with a UHF antenna, an antenna designed for the high VHF will also be required, or a VHF/UHF combo antenna.

So after the DTV Conversion is all set and done this is how the local signals in the TV Band will look in this order.

WMVS-10    (8D)
WVTV-18   (18D)
WVCY-30   (22D)
WCGV-24  (25D)
WTMJ-4     (28D)
WITI-6      (33D)
WISN-12   (34D)
WMVT-36  (35D)
WPXE-55  (40D)
WDJT-58   (46D)
WBME-49  (48D)

Yes that is the order the TV signals will be, but all Digital tuners will put them in the order of the channel number we have always known.

-John L.

[TT123]

ChannelMaster CM3018 is my antenna on a rotor with 50 feet of rg6 to a splitter to my HDTV then another 50 feet to my 3way to the other tv's in the house that are on converters.

Could it be I have the wrong (too directional antenna), need a preamp and maybe a multi bay uhf antenna?

I have struggled with this for some time and well I can't put a meter on it and just say here is what it is.

Any help? The trees all leaved out come spring are like looking through a brick wall. The hill at Sunny Slope road doesn't help eather.

Tom

[Stanley Kritzik]

Here are the frequencies after the change (whenever it will finally be):

WTMJ-4 (28 Digital)
WITI-6 (33D)
WMVS-10 (8D)
WISN-12 (34D)
WVTV-18 (18D)
WCGV-24 (25D)
WVCY-30 (22D)
WMVT-36 (35D)
WBME-49 (48D)
WPXE-55 (40D)
WDJT-58 (46D)

That's a range of channels 8 through 48, with one station remaining on VHF-high and the rest on UHF. Nothing will be on 2-6, which would require a larger antenna. A UHF antenna is a must, and most do an adequate job at picking up the high VHF channels (WMVS on . If you're not able to pick up WMVS with a UHF antenna, an antenna designed for the high VHF will also be required, or a VHF/UHF combo antenna.

So, my main viewing is via DirecTV and an outdoor antenna, but I have a small set in the kitchen and I got an inexpensive Radio Shack antenna, as I can't wire the house antenna to it.  All was well on the UHF channels and the antenna loop, but I had to unfold the two arms to get 8D marginally.  Why, oh why, couldn't the powers that be put all of Milwaukee's metro area stations on UHF?  For one significant PBS station we have to fiddle and diddle with a VHF signal.  How did they let it happen?

Stan

[ArgMeMatey]

Why, oh why, couldn't the powers that be put all of Milwaukee's metro area stations on UHF?  For one significant PBS station we have to fiddle and diddle with a VHF signal.  How did they let it happen?

Just another nail in the coffin for local public TV management, eh?  

Good question.  

I have no clue but I will speculate:

1.  The antenna for 8 was cheaper than UHF?
2.  They can get better wide-area penetration on 8?
3.  They can operate at lower power on 8, so it's cheaper?
4.  They settled on 8 early, thinking others would be there too?
5.  An accommodation to the people who have VHF-only rooftop antennas and only want to watch 10.1 going forward?

[Jack 1000]

Here are the frequencies after the change (whenever it will finally be):

WTMJ-4 (28 Digital)
WITI-6 (33D)
WMVS-10 (8D)
WISN-12 (34D)
WVTV-18 (18D)
WCGV-24 (25D)
WVCY-30 (22D)
WMVT-36 (35D)
WBME-49 (48D)
WPXE-55 (40D)
WDJT-58 (46D)

That's a range of channels 8 through 48, with one station remaining on VHF-high and the rest on UHF. Nothing will be on 2-6, which would require a larger antenna. A UHF antenna is a must, and most do an adequate job at picking up the high VHF channels (WMVS on . If you're not able to pick up WMVS with a UHF antenna, an antenna designed for the high VHF will also be required, or a VHF/UHF combo antenna.

I have cable so this doesn't apply to me.  Are you saying that for example (using the guide above that channel 4 will be on channel 28?? for analog tv's with a converter box?  I don't get that.

Jack

[troyriley]

I have cable so this doesn't apply to me.  Are you saying that for example (using the guide above that channel 4 will be on channel 28?? for analog tv's with a converter box?  I don't get that.

Jack

You're correct, that this does not apply to cable or satellite subscribers, unless you still receive stations over-the-air. The list means that channel 4's digital signal will continue to be broadcast on the channel 28 frequency. This applies to TV's with a digital tuner, or analog TV's using a converter box. Channel 4 still shows up as channel 4 (4-1 NBC and 4-2 Weather) on the TV or converter box, however.

[ArgMeMatey]

Are you saying that for example (using the guide above that channel 4 will be on channel 28?? for analog tv's with a converter box?  

No.  

The channels we are all familiar with such as 4, 6, 10, 12, 18, 24, 58 are virtual channels.  They used to refer to a specific piece of spectrum but now they have been reduced to "branding" value.  

Programming based on the ATSC standard tells a digital TV tuner or DTV converter box "When the couch potato enters 4.1 on the remote, show him UHF channel 28" and so on.  

This reduces the amount of thinking that the average joe has to do, but adds an extra conversion when troubleshooting OTA signal problems, because often it's helpful for the troubleshooter to know what part of the spectrum is being used for the actual transmission.

[troyriley]

Just another nail in the coffin for local public TV management, eh?  

Good question.  

I have no clue but I will speculate:

1.  The antenna for 8 was cheaper than UHF?
2.  They can get better wide-area penetration on 8?
3.  They can operate at lower power on 8, so it's cheaper?
4.  They settled on 8 early, thinking others would be there too?
5.  An accommodation to the people who have VHF-only rooftop antennas and only want to watch 10.1 going forward?

That's very good speculation. Many experts feel the high VHF channels (7-13) are ideal for their digital signal. Channels 2-6 are too prone to interference. UHF channels are more difficult to receive. UHF signals are easily blocked by terrain, heavy tree cover, buildings, etc. because the signal will not penetrate those obstructions, and UHF signals do not reach as far. Even inside the home, UHF signal strength decreases rapidly with long cable runs. VHF signals can reach longer distances at lower power. The only disadvantage is that a larger antenna is required for VHF than UHF. Fortunately though, many antennas designed for UHF can adequately receive VHF-high channels.