Good News for WTMJ Picture Quality - Bye, Bye Weather Plus!

[SRW1000]

Saw this posted on the AVS forum, from a post at TVWeek:

The sun is setting on NBC Weather Plus, the 4-year-old digital joint venture between NBC and affiliated local stations, which programmed the 24/7 local weather service on their digital channels. The service was one of the first digital projects conceived as a way for a network and its affiliates to work together to create new revenue streams.

NBC News President Steve Capus informed the on- and off-air Weather Plus staff headquartered at CNBC facilities in Englewood, N.J., Tuesday morning that the operation would be phased out in stages through the end of the year.

This should improve broadcast quality for WTMJ's HD offerings (hopefully noticeable on Sunday Night Football).

Let's just hope that it isn't replaced by another useless sub-channel.

Scott

[basshive]

This is FANTASTIC news unless they feel the need to crunch our HD viewing back to 4:3 to tell us about rain more often  I wonder if we can contact WTMJ to see when they expect to turn it off in our area?

[Northern Fringe]

Keep in mind that NBC has purchased The Weather Channel.  They may re-invent the Weather Plus service as some sort of Weather Channel product.  It's just a possibility, but I can see it happening.

[MDR]

New ways to maximize return already being considered.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/index.asp?layout=articlePrint&articleID=CA6602781

MDR

[WITI6fan]

I highly doubt TMJ4's Weather Plus is going anywhere. Besides having to buy the equipment used to broadcast it, WTMJ has also heavily integrated it in their set, on air (both TV and radio), online, and in print. If they're no longer allowed to use the WeatherPlus name, I can see them going to AccuWeather Channel or just creating their own name.

Basically, I wouldn't get my hopes up about WTMJ dropping the subchannel.

[John L]

I highly doubt TMJ4's Weather Plus is going anywhere. Besides having to buy the equipment used to broadcast it, WTMJ has also heavily integrated it in their set, on air (both TV and radio), online, and in print. If they're no longer allowed to use the WeatherPlus name, I can see them going to AccuWeather Channel or just creating their own name.

Basically, I wouldn't get my hopes up about WTMJ dropping the subchannel.

I agree with you. I think 4-2 or 4.2 will still be around. I think the format will change, more for local forecast  or local people doing all of the weather or very little on national coverage in which NBC was furnishing.

So in reality don't hold your breath if you think TMJ is dropping 4-2.

-John L.

[Bluto]

It looks like NBC is offering HD sports as a possible WeatherPlus replacement.  If it's truly offering a second HD channel, that could make the main channel look even worse than it is now.

http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/10/nbcu_offers_hd_sports_net_to_s.php

NBCU Offers HD Sports Net to Stations
By Sergio Ibarra

NBC Universal is offering its owned-and-operated stations and affiliates pickup of Universal Sports, a 24/7 hi-def sports network, in the wake of terminating its Weather Plus operation.

NBCU affiliate stations have been extended a first refusal offer until Dec. 1. Rollout has already begun on all O&O multicast signals and some affiliates, reaching 30 million homes.

Universal Sports offers some 2,400 hours of live programming per year, in addition to 5,000 hours of archival footage. The channel also has exclusive local coverage of many Olympic sports events, including track and field, skiing, swimming and gymnastics.

Local affiliates will also be given five minutes of local ad time per hour, 10 hours of infomercials or local sports programming per week, seven hours per week of local sports-related programming, highlight clips for local news shows and online content for local Web sites.

Universal Sports will begin airing the World Cup Ski Season from October through March, as well as the 2008 Beijing Paralympics beginning in November. The network will also air Olympic trials, highlights and encores throughout the year.

[John L]

It looks like NBC is offering HD sports as a possible WeatherPlus replacement.  If it's truly offering a second HD channel, that could make the main channel look even worse than it is now.

Personally I would think TV stations know technically how it affects its digital signal regarding doing multi-channel operation or possibly a 2nd HD multi-channel. Course I have never seen anyone try doing 2 HD channels at once. I assume it is possible, but would soak up lots of bandwidth.

WDJT, Ch. 58 has experimented with a new system to ease the transmission of multi-channels along with a main HD channel. I guess it has proven succesful.

I am definitely sure that if a TV station cannot deliver a quality signal using these methods, then therefore they won't try it for the time being.

Regarding most complaints from HD viewers on here about stations like WDJT-TV and WTMJ transmitting multi-channels and causing pixellations, etc. is probably due to they way they have their receiving equipment set up. I have no problems with either stations plus I have a rotor on my antenna to get the best signal possible to a point of no pix and sharp.  

For a TV station realize they have a problem, every viewer would have the same problems on how they receive the station.  If  1 out of 100 viewers is having a problem with pixelation then most likely the problem is with the viewer's set-up, receiver location, antenna, etc.  Therefore the TV station cannot be at fault.

-John L.

[Tom Snyder]

It's pretty simple math. A digital channel is capable of transmitting 19 Mbit/s.  AN uncompressed 1080i HD can take thew whole stream if available. However most stations compress the signal to 11 Mbit/s. But even compressed, the stream is not capable of transmitting two 1080i signals.  However, a 720p can be compressed down to 8 Mbit/s... if an NBC Sports channel was produced in 720p, both channels could co-exist on the same signal.

But, as we've seen, a combination of a lot of motion and a lot of compression causes pixelation.  When CBS58 was experimenting with adding a sub channel, they used us to help them test a piece of equipment that would dynamically adjust the available bandwidth and reallocate bandwidth from the second channel to allow more for HD Sports.  It worked for them because the second channel was an SD channel, requiring between 8 and 6, so they had plenty of bandwidth to go around.

Two HD channels will absolutely stretch it to the limit. So there WILL be pixelation. Unless there's new and imporoved compression technology (any TMJ engineers here?), if there's football on 4-1 and downhill skiing on 4-2 at the same time it will border on unwatchable.

[SRW1000]

Personally I would think TV stations know technically how it affects its digital signal regarding doing multi-channel operation or possibly a 2nd HD multi-channel. Course I have never seen anyone try doing 2 HD channels at once. I assume it is possible, but would soak up lots of bandwidth.

WDJT, Ch. 58 has experimented with a new system to ease the transmission of multi-channels along with a main HD channel. I guess it has proven succesful.

I am definitely sure that if a TV station cannot deliver a quality signal using these methods, then therefore they won't try it for the time being.

Regarding most complaints from HD viewers on here about stations like WDJT-TV and WTMJ transmitting multi-channels and causing pixellations, etc. is probably due to they way they have their receiving equipment set up. I have no problems with either stations plus I have a rotor on my antenna to get the best signal possible to a point of no pix and sharp.  

For a TV station realize they have a problem, every viewer would have the same problems on how they receive the station.  If  1 out of 100 viewers is having a problem with pixelation then most likely the problem is with the viewer's set-up, receiver location, antenna, etc.  Therefore the TV station cannot be at fault.

-John L.

There is a finite amount of bandwidth per channel.  Once stations start broadcasting more than one HD channel, the available pool of bits goes down, which is what affects quality.

The people complaining here, and on other AV forums, about multi-casting reducing picture quality are not imagining things, nor is it a result of their receiving equipment.  The detriments of multi-casting are well-known.  We may be pickier than other viewers, but the reduced quality and increased pixelation is very real.

Watch channel 58 and their sub channels while they're showing an HD NFL game, and then compare the picture to when they're only showing SD programming.  There is a significant difference.  If you can't see it in real-time, just hit the pause button and take a look.

Do stations know that what they're doing negatively affects the picture?  Certainly.  Do they think that viewers will notice?  They probably figure that while some will, many won't.  Heck, there are people out there with cable boxes hooked up via S-video that think they're watching HD.

As far as running two HD broadcast on two sub-channels go, I'd be highly skeptical that the result would be watchable.  If broadcasters ever switched over to MPEG4 coding, it might be a different story.  Don't look for that to happen anytime soon, though.

Scott

[Bluto]

A quick update - TV Week updated their article.   NBC Universal Sports will NOT be an HD channel.  Just a digital SD channel.

"NBC Universal is offering its owned-and-operated stations and affiliates pickup of Universal Sports, a 24/7 digital sports network, in the wake of terminating its Weather Plus operation."

http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/10/nbcu_offers_hd_sports_net_to_s.php

[SRW1000]

A quick update - TV Week updated their article.   NBC Universal Sports will NOT be an HD channel.  Just a digital SD channel.

"NBC Universal is offering its owned-and-operated stations and affiliates pickup of Universal Sports, a 24/7 digital sports network, in the wake of terminating its Weather Plus operation."

http://www.tvweek.com/news/2008/10/nbcu_offers_hd_sports_net_to_s.php

While that wouldn't be as bad as an HD sports channel, having that much high-action content on a sub-channel would have a significant negative affect on the main channel's HD content.

Weather Plus was a drag, but SD sports would be even worse.

Scott

[basshive]

sub-channels are just plain bad.. atleast in their current implimentations.

[jarschmd]

I'm probably in the minority here, but I'd be very interested in a 4-2 or 4-3 SD NBC sports channel 24/7.

[jeffski]

I could live w/o weather plus but I know a few older people without cable( a couple who I recently hooked up their digital converter) will miss this channel.