Known Navigator Program Listing Bugs.

[Jack 1000]

Ever since the changeover to Navigator, I have noticed the following strange channel duplications:

1.) Some shows on TV Land are duplicated in time slots when searching.  There will be the correct channel (61) at for example 4:00.  Than just below that channel, there will be a listing of the same show, but with no channel number indicated.  (As a classic TV purist, I watch Leave it to Beaver on TV Land.  This listing shows this type of duplicate channel behavior.)

I have also seen TV Land listed as a 600 series channel.  

2.) Do a Search for shows on Turner Classic Movies.  You will see the correct channel for the movie (60) followed by the same movie shown on a channel in the 1800's. (I believe it is 1870.)  But when going to the 1870 channel, a message says that this channel is not available.

For recording, the best work-around is to always select the known channel and ignore the duplicate.

That is what I am seeing.  What other bugs have the rest of you noticed?  Note that I am not talking about inconveniences, but specific program listing bugs.

Jack

[opfreak]

I found a bug, its called...

Navigator,

If the apt people would have allowed holes drilled to get cables inside my apt, I would have been done with TWC this past weekend.

Getting more audio drop outs, boxes rebotting weekly, tens of recordings that didn't record.

This upgrade was and is an EPIC FAIL

[basshive]

If the apt people would have allowed holes drilled to get cables inside my apt, I would have been done with TWC this past weekend.

Can you run flat cable through a window or sliding door? Seen and read about it being done in numerous condos/apts.

[Jack 1000]

Hi All,

Could someone check this out for me please?  Go to your Navigator Guide and look up listings for any show on TV Land or Food Network. (Search for any known title show like Emeril Live on Food Network or The Andy Griffith Show on TV Land.)  There are two guide numbers, one is listed for TV Land as something like 1880 and the other one is listed at something like 1898.  I know that there is a legit Food Network station in the 1900's as a part of the Family Choice Package.  The problem is that the channel in the 1800 range does not exist!  TV Land is channel 61 and Food Network is channel 67.

On two occasions, when recording shows on TV Land and Food Network I have LOST the recordings about 10 minutes into the show.  The Recording Log says that both shows could not record because the recording was not authorized.  My theory is that there is a conflict, because somehow the software thinks that the bogus channels in the 1880's are legit, but there is nothing there, resulting in the conflict in the listing.  The 1800 channel numbers should not be in the system.  Earlier I had contacted TWC about when new features and updates are coming to Navigator, and will post a reply about this bug when I get an e-mail response back.  What I would like anyone to do is check your listings for TV Land and Food Network, and if you have channel duplicate numbers in the 1800's for those channels, to report this bug to TWC.  

This is a bug. I am sure the duplicated channel numbers are causing the conflict about unauthorized recordings.  TCM also has duplicate channel numbers, but I have not recorded anything on that station.

All other recordings work great, so I know this is not a box issue.  It is only with those two channels, and related to the non-existent channels above.  The more people that report this, I hope the faster this bug can be fixed.

Jack

PS.  Anyone feel free to respond in this thread when you got a response back from TWC.

[Gregg Lengling]

I can't wait for Uverse to be live in my neighborhood, I'm sick of my DVR rebooting all the time...I'll be searching the program guide and the remote will stop responding...I know in a minute the sucker will reboot.  On my Non-DVR unit, everytime I push the guide button the ubiqitous Loading Info comes up for a minute....come on TWC poor software and the lack of any real HD content is really ticking me off.

[Jack 1000]

I got the typical rhetoric response back from TWC that was about 80% form letter.  There was one constructive thing in it.  I had asked if they could offer a time-line for subscribers as to when we might see Navigator updates at specific intervals: (i.e next month, end of the year, etc.)  They said they would like to do that, but they only get information about Navigator updates and version changes within a few DAYS of them actually taking place.  In other words, a change has to be happening within about a week before they know about it.

Maybe they already know, but they can't release it to the public until a few days before it happens.  You can ask as well if you want and see what answers you get.  I stated again my top 3 requests:

1.) A Keyword Keyboard Search (i.e Content Theme Word Search) and letter-wrap.

2.) A prompt to "View This Channel Now" when taking action on a future show.

3.) An expanded Sports category list.

Jack

[DXer720]

I can't wait for Uverse to be live in my neighborhood, I'm sick of my DVR rebooting all the time...I'll be searching the program guide and the remote will stop responding...I know in a minute the sucker will reboot.  On my Non-DVR unit, everytime I push the guide button the ubiqitous Loading Info comes up for a minute....come on TWC poor software and the lack of any real HD content is really ticking me off.

You have exactly the same problem I'm experinecing.  TWC's given me 2 new boxes, but no help.  Their answer is "reboot".  ISN'T THAT WHAT THE STUPID BOX HAS BEEN DOING?!!!  :bang:

Sorry for the yelling.

[Jack 1000]

You have exactly the same problem I'm experiencing.  TWC's given me 2 new boxes, but no help.  Their answer is "reboot".  ISN'T THAT WHAT THE STUPID BOX HAS BEEN DOING?!!!  :bang:

Sorry for the yelling.

Funny for me,

My box doesn't reboot much at all.  Or if it does, it's when I am sleeping or the TV is off.  I haven't really had problems with Navigator.  My experience has been with seeing small oversight bugs that I discussed above, and the loss of some features from Passport.  What I am seeing are more inconveniences in design more so than bugs.

My responses for Navigator if something is strange it's because of guide layout being organized stupidly. (i.e organizing recordings by title, not having enough sports categories, page+/- not working fast enough when held down.)

But as far as usage everything works.  Well. my closed captioning never worked on the box, but it never worked with Passport either.  So that's not a Navigator problem.

Jack

[nick3092]

Funny for me,

My box doesn't reboot much at all.  Or if it does, it's when I am sleeping or the TV is off.  I haven't really had problems with Navigator.  My experience has been with seeing small oversight bugs that I discussed above, and the loss of some features from Passport.  What I am seeing are more inconveniences in design more so than bugs.

My responses for Navigator if something is strange it's because of guide layout being organized stupidly. (i.e organizing recordings by title, not having enough sports categories, page+/- not working fast enough when held down.)

But as far as usage everything works.  Well. my closed captioning never worked on the box, but it never worked with Passport either.  So that's not a Navigator problem.

Jack

With my MDN 8300HD, I've had pretty much no major issues with Navigator, just some small (but livable) annoyances.  My parents have an ODN 8300HDC box, and I feel sorry for them.  Its so much slower, seems to be lacking some of the same options and settings  my MDN has, and suffers from the "record every airing of a TV show bug" (i.e. set it to record new Daily Shows at 10pm, and it records the 10pm plus like 2 other airings of it).

The slowness issues can probably only be fixed by using a box with more horsepower.  The new Cisco (aka Scientific Atlanta) 8550HDC box looks like it might fit the bill.  However the other issues can probably only be fixed with a code roll.  But who knows when TW will upgrade either.

For now, I'm praying my MDN box doesn't give out.  I don't know if I can live with ODN after seeing it at my parents house, and knowing how well my MDN works for me.

[gparris]

With my MDN 8300HD, I've had pretty much no major issues with Navigator, just some small (but livable) annoyances.  My parents have an ODN 8300HDC box, and I feel sorry for them.  Its so much slower, seems to be lacking some of the same options and settings  my MDN has, and suffers from the "record every airing of a TV show bug" (i.e. set it to record new Daily Shows at 10pm, and it records the 10pm plus like 2 other airings of it).

The slowness issues can probably only be fixed by using a box with more horsepower.  The new Cisco (aka Scientific Atlanta) 8550HDC box looks like it might fit the bill.  However the other issues can probably only be fixed with a code roll.  But who knows when TW will upgrade either.

For now, I'm praying my MDN box doesn't give out.  I don't know if I can live with ODN after seeing it at my parents house, and knowing how well my MDN works for me.

I agree with both of you, the MDN DVR HD boxes work well enough for me.
But the neighbour's ODN box really does move much slower and has some really bad features about it.
For example, yesterday, when I showed them some features they had trouble with, having had a 8000SD box before they bought an HDTV, I noticed the "HDTV" light on their box never lights up, even with HD channels like 541...odd.

I also keep an extra 8300HD box instead of a std HD box, just in case one of my 8300HD boxes goes bad.
For me, that $8.50/month DVR fee extra is sort of a "piece of mind" for me as I would still need a HD box, anyway for HDTV #3.

If I had to switch to 8300HDC boxes, I be switching faster to some other provider, but then again, I'm still waiting for my tax refund in the mail...

[Jack 1000]

I also heard that the newer HDC boxes are faster than those with the Cable-Cards of last year.  But still, the HD seems to be faster.  Although my brother had to switch from a slow DVR box (an old 8000) (no C) to an 8300 HDC, and he says it's faster than his SD 8000.

The problem is for control comparison's we don't know how "old" some HDC boxes are that may not have had Navigator or cable card updates to them.  The newer (fresh out of factory HDC) seem to work well.  But, not having a C box, I have nothing to draw comparisons.

I'm interested in the new 8500 HDC.  If these solve the reliability problems and could even be faster than the MDN's, (no C) subs will be thinking that the 8500's should have rolled out much sooner.  But we have to give Cisco time to test the new 8500's.  The only downside, is that I read they still have the same storage capacity as the older DVR's.

Jack

[nick3092]

I'm interested in the new 8500 HDC.  If these solve the reliability problems and could even be faster than the MDN's, (no C) subs will be thinking that the 8500's should have rolled out much sooner.  But we have to give Cisco time to test the new 8500's.  The only downside, is that I read they still have the same storage capacity as the older DVR's.

Jack

For those interested in the new 8500 series (or the 8000 and 8300 series too), you can read about them here:

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps8613/products_data_sheets_list.html

They do still have only a 160gig HDD in them.  With the rise in HD channel offerings, you would think they would have increased that.  But as long as I can make an eSATA drive work with my box, thats minor.

Interesting to note, the 8300 HD and HDC both appear to use a dual Risc CPU setup (250mhz) that I assume is doing everything.  The new 8500's appear to have moved away from a dual CPU setup for everything, to what appears to be a quad (or 6 , depending how you look at it) CPU setup, with each specializing in it's own area.  A 600mhz application CPU, dual 400mhz CPUs for video, dual 250mhz CPUs for audio, and a 200mhz CPU for DOCSIS.

But who knows for sure.  That is just my interpretation off the data sheets.  For all I know SA may have been less detailed in their data sheets than Cisco is, and the extra CPU's were there all along.  But if not, it sounds like the 8500's have the potential to be real powerhouses.

There is also a lot of speculation that the current CPU's in the 8300 line are not capable of branch prediction in Java.  If they used a CPU that is capable of branch prediction in the 8500's, there could be a big performance boost.  But then again, if prediction is not implemented properly, it could slow things down further.  Ideally you would want a processor capable of executing both branches in parallel, and ignoring the results that are not used/needed.

[Jack 1000]

I still get the bug in Navigator where sometimes you cannot change the time of a recording AFTER you have set it if you want a show to start earlier or later than the pre-set time. You sometimes have to set up the show first, (Record Show With Options) by adjusting the start time. Than it comes out showing the correct changes.

If you have this bug (I have an SA 8300 DVR-MDN box) you have to go and CANCEL the original recording. Than, go back to record the same show by selecting Record Show with options, and adjust the start/end time for your show.

What this bug means is that sometimes the start/end times must be set when you originally set up the recording, or they may not be able to be changed, unless you cancel the recording and redo it with, Record Show With Options.

Jack

[Jack 1000]

Today the grid is fine but the program guide when you bring up Find Shows, doesn't bring up anything.  All categories show NONE.  I am going to hold off on a manual reboot.  The B button pushed twice does not bring up the keyboard.  I wonder if we could be getting an upgrade.  Like a keyboard search by keyword topic?  Or some changes to the schedule?  Something might be happening that is decent.

Jack

[LoadStar]

Today the grid is fine but the program guide when you bring up Find Shows, doesn't bring up anything.  All categories show NONE.  I am going to hold off on a manual reboot.  The B button pushed twice does not bring up the keyboard.  I wonder if we could be getting an upgrade.  Like a keyboard search by keyword topic?  Or some changes to the schedule?  Something might be happening that is decent.

Jack

I got that yesterday as well. A reboot fixed the problem. I think it might have something to do with (what I believe is) the digital simulcast rollout.

I noticed that at the same time that I started having these issues, the digital version of TruTV moved from 18xx to 649. I'll bet they're sending out some weird guide data that the boxes aren't liking.