AV Receiver

[flash]

Since I am slowly replacing my AV system I thought I would ask everyones opinions
on AV receivers.
My current favorites from researching are:
Denon AVR 3808CI
and the
Onkyo 875

Both are overpriced but when I find a deal for under $900 I'll jump on one of them.

What is everyone else's opinion on the above or some other models?

[gparris]

Many folks love their Denon brand AVRs, especially their newest ones from my perspective, as a HT planner.
-Denon is a quality line, I have three AVRs from them and have installed many of this brand with great success.
I doubt, however, that you might find that model at that discount.
You may have warranty issues if you don't purchase from an authourized dealer, too.
BTW, their AVRs are not at all that difficult to setup, either, as some may say these are and the audio is nothing short of fantastic!
The AVR-3808CI you mentioned is Denon's latest model, it offers excellent connectivity and allows for input label changes, so you know what is connected without having to consult your remote:
It says it directly on the AVR's panel, no guessing.
(This is something Onkyo's do not offer and that may be a concern for some.)

-The Onkyo brand offers good value, but check out their specs carefully, so you don't miss anything regarding any features you might miss in their product line
...you get what you pay for and Onkyo satisfies many owners.

-Sony AVRs are generally deficient in audio quality including some features in their standard product line,
until you get into their "ES" line (for "Elevated Standard").
Here, the Sony-ES AVRs tend to excel at audio quality and features. One model, the Sony 5300ES, has SIX HDMI inputs.

-Yamahas are always great value, but again, you must watch for feature sets, but many owners swear by them, rather than swear at them.

-Pioneer is okay, but their Pioneer ELITE line is excellent, equivalent, IMO, to Denon and offers mostly the same features and audio quality audiophiles enjoy.

Hope this offers you some insight to AVRs and I hope I didn't offend anyone.
It's just based on past experiences with setups and feedback I receive.

[SRW1000]

So much depends on what features you're looking for.  If HDMI isn't important to you, the Outlaw 970 is on sale through this weekend only, for $499.

I own it's bigger brother, the 990 pre/pro, and have been very happy with it.  At under $500, the 970 is a steal, as long as you don't care about HDMI.  Buying now  will also get you $200 off their upcoming receivers, if you decide to upgrade.  Details are here.  Outlaw is a good internet-direct company, which has garnered lots of good reviews over the years.  My dealings with them have been top-notch, and their products are the top of my list for comparisons.

Scott

[gparris]

Outlaw brand is very good, you are right, but my understanding is there is a need for HDMI (HD DVD player's advanced audio codecs)
-and that is why flash is looking for this feature.

[flash]

I currently own a Sony ES and it's been a great receiver for the last 9 years but I really want HDMI (1.3a) to help alleviate a lot of cables for:
Xbox 360 (non HDMI so upconversion is important)
New (as of yesterday) Toshiba HD A2 (I want to be able to use the HDMI upconversion feature for SD DVD's)
TWC 8300 DVR
....next TV that will have HDMI tbd........

Less cables are important for the WAF and helps me push the purchase through. :blush:

I don't know if any of the newer receivers pass the signal through without having the receiver on. I mean, if I want to watch a HD DVD or play Xbox, I'd rather not have to turn on the stereo but I don't even know if this is even possible.

The KISS method is important because that way I won't get phone calls saying "how do I turn on the (insert technology here?"

XM radio is not important but having the ability to "flash" updates could be important for firmware updates. Ethernet may not be a must since I could hopefully download the firmware to a DVD and just load into the player ( I would hope)

I know that older Denons used to have 5 channel stereo which would be nice.
THX certification isn't a must since but some of the newer HD audio stuff probably would.

I've read some bad things about Sony's current product line (not to offend anyone here)

[gparris]

flash, most AVRs today offer either XM or Sirius satellite radio "ready" options, some both, actually, but these are unimportant to most folks, so don't worry.
There is another optional piece to buy to get the service(s) and a subscription, too, don't sweat it.
7.1 is mostly the "norm" for most AVRs, though some still offer 6.1 on lower-end models.

As far as the HDMI AVR goes, connecting it all the HT gear using the AVR is the thing to do, honestly and you must turn it on for switching and flowthru.
Turning it on with the HDTV display is an easy thing to remember (habit) and you can "macro" it with any remote if you wish (some like and others may not).

HDMI cabling has eliminated so many component and audio cables for many of my newer setups, so instead of four connections, I do only one.
The other day I looked in my "HT setup box" I use when I do connections for folks and wondered why I had so very many component video cables and audio cables left and it was because I switched them over to HDMI AVRs.
With the AVR with HDMI, you eliminate up to 75% or more cabling, produce the best possible audio signal (including 1080p video).
The AVR alone allows one turn of an input selector (or push of a button on the remote) and you have both of your audio and video inputs changed.
That is why I prefer the input label rename function on the AVRs I select for clients, since I DON'T get the calls of why their audio is not working and so on.
Some AVRs offer ethernet support which is good for updates to the AVRs; I have done some and it generally works well.
Ethernet connectivity allows for internet music and so on, a feature that many enjoy, among other features.

[flash]

As far as the HDMI AVR goes, connecting it all the HT gear using the AVR is the thing to do, honestly.
Turning it on with the HDTV display is an easy thing to remember (habit) and you can "macro" it with any remote if you wish (some like and others may not).

Do the receivers "pass through" the signals without the AVR being turned on?

If you macro everything, do you have to mute or turn down the AVR's speakers if you only want to hear from the TV?

I appreciate all of your input and help with these things gparris!
Thanks!

[gparris]

Do the receivers "pass through" the signals without the AVR being turned on?

If you macro everything, do you have to mute or turn down the AVR's speakers if you only want to hear from the TV?

I appreciate all of your input and help with these things gparris!
Thanks!

From my experiences, yes, you must power up the AVR for any switching and passthough.
Even simple HDMI switches I use have to be left on, too during use of other components so connected.

If you don't macro, just leave instructions to turn on three things:
1) HDTV (leaving the same input source on the HDTV selected all the time).

2) AVR (for any audio, switching and upconversion, if desired) and you switch to the named input
(see #3 item, below).

3) A/V component (HD DVD, Blu-ray, DVR, STB, XBOX,etc.) so desired for use this time.

-That's all, my more elderly HT "fanciers" follow this and love it!
(They stay home a lot and watch HD movies from a HD provider and mail rental for HD discs).

As far as sound settings, many AVRs offer a setting named "night mode" or "midnight cinema", etc.,
-this allows for dialogue-emphasis, less surround effects and maybe this can be added to your remote settings, if you desire.
The audio effect at this selection will be like you are using the TV's speakers, anyway.
I find that this way, folks are not forgetting to use the AVR for full-surround audio
from the many sources that offer it.
Since these items are connected to it anyway, these audio settings work very well for them.

Please remember this all from my perspective due to experience.

[flash]

As far as sound settings, many AVRs offer a setting named "night mode" or "midnight cinema", etc.,
-this allows for dialogue-emphasis, less surround effects and maybe this can be added to your remote settings, if you desire.
The effect will be like you are using the TV's speakers, anyway.
I find that this way, folks are not forgetting to use the AVR for full surround audio from the many sources that offer it
and since these items are connected to it anyway,
these audio settings work very well for them.

Does the Denon do all of this?
The reason I was looking at the AVR 3808CI was because it had more HDMI inputs.
A lot of AVR's only have 2 HDMI inputs and I'm figuring I'd need at least 3.

Do you know of any AWESOME deals on the 3808CI? (wink wink nudge nudge say no more)
....or do you think the 2808CI would be be sufficient?

[gparris]

The Denon AVR-2808CI offers good features, excellent audio and is very similar to the AVR-2807, if you can still find one.
The previous model, the AVR-2807 is what I have for one of my AVRs and it is one of the best AVRs I ever owned.
It is rated at 20W/channel less than the AVR-38xx series and offers 2 HDMI inputs (vs. 3 or 4) and offers no ethernet port as its main differences.
-If you need more HDMI inputs, get a HDMI switcher like I did for my AVR-4306,
to interlink my Sony DVD changers together, using one of the HDMI inputs on the AVR:It works!
HDMI switchers can come with remote controls, too and if you price them right, this addon can be still cheaper than buying the AVR-3808CI.

I have a link for you for this new AVR:

http://usa.denon.com/AVR-2808CILit_830.pdf

Notice the "Night Mode" setting in the link.

I got my AVR-2807 on sale for $927 at Best Buy Magnolia a few months ago.
(you can haggle sometimes and use coupons).

As for power, it fills all 7.1 channels in a room 27 feet x 13 feet x 16 feet high (double vaulted ceiling) with room to spare.
ANY more questions?

[Blitzburgh]

I have an AVR-3808. This is an awesome reciever.

You will not see it anywhere near $900 anytime soon.

If you can get it for $1100 that would be a great deal.

[Paul S.]

I'm gonna just echo everything GP said about Denon- they're absolutely great! You can get a 3808ci for under 900 if you know a dealer (which I'm still trying to get). Good luck on that thogh lol.

[flash]

I read on another forum that 6th AVE was selling them only if you called them and it was under $1000
fyi

[gparris]

flash, just make sure the place is an authourized Denon dealer just in case something goes wrong with the unit.
While Denon quality and longitivity are well known, the dealer may not be and  your warranty could be void...just FYI.
I have a buddy that bought a refurbished Denon and still loves it, but he could have got lucky (he usually is).
Honestly, I would recommend the AVR-3808CI just for the extra HDMI ports and higher watts/channel, among its many features, over the AVR-2808CI, but that's me.

[flash]

6th Ave. is an authorized (non B grade) Denon agent according to Denon's web site. There were people posting over at AVS about the "3 digit deal" they were getting and they posted that you have to call to get the deal.
I've noticed that Denon has relaxed it's vendor policy and have expanded to more dealers. They even have links to their "B" grade and refurb vendors.
I don't know how 6th Ave. can sell the 3808CI for such a cheap price when the refurb  dealers are selling it for $1100.
I haven't made the call to 6th Ave. yet.......... I'm hoping to get a local vendor to go for a 60" 60A3000 and Denon 3808CI as a "package" deal and get no interest for 12+ months.
I figure that typically, the best deals are between Thanksgiving and Christmas.


.........still patiently waiting for some big announcements on laser tv but that probably won't happen till CES 2008.