CBS58 vs. DirectTV

[Tom Snyder]

The post count is only relevant if a person hasn't been around long enough to know what is inappropriate to post.  I've edited some inappropriate language in that post, and will let this thread continue... but I'll be watching carefully. :OnAir:

As far as the CBS58 / DirecTV issue... I appreciate your frustration.. I wish I didn't have to have an antenna to pick up 58-1... but I'm 20 miles out, and I have a little old Radio Shack indoor antenna hidden out of view that picks it up just fine. I would be more angry if I live far away enough that I couldn't get it at all.

That said, you guys have no clue as to the negotiation sticking points and technical considerations that are involved between 58 and D*, and I'd be very careful about making assumptions that the issue here is as simple as Weigel being cheap, or disrespecting their viewers, or any one of the other theories that are being lobbed here.

It's a free market... and it's BIG. Market forces will speak louder than words in a little internet TV forum. If you don't like a product or service, don't use it. If enough people stop using/buying (and in a market this size, that will take A LOT more people than have ever posted in this site since we started), then change will happen.

In the meantime, let's keep the conversation civil, and until the CBS outlet in Milwaukee provides you with a product that's satisfactory, let's use our resources to help make the best of the situation.  

I know we want everything... so do crying three year olds in the grocery store.  But let's be adults, shall we?

[PixelPete]

Wouldn't the car analogy be more like: All of the Nissan dealers sell the fancy new Altima with turbo, except in Milwaukee; they only carry the regular engine but still sell it at the same price. If you want the turbo you have to have a third party install it (and pay extra for it).

Call it complaining or not, but it's pretty pathetic that if I want to watch "local HD" that I would have to pay extra for it. Not only do I have to buy an antenna and run another ugly cable in my living room, but I also have to get a digi tuner because my older HDtv did not come with one. So free TV is not so free.

I also am disappointed in D*, in that they advertise Get Your Local Channels! like its a droppable feature. If that were the case, I should be able to call them and be able to elect to not take that "feature" and stick with the East or West or ALL of the feeds. I'm just sayin'!

[jjallou]

Call it complaining or not, but it's pretty pathetic that if I want to watch "local HD" that I would have to pay extra for it. Not only do I have to buy an antenna and run another ugly cable in my living room, but I also have to get a digi tuner because my older HDtv did not come with one. So free TV is not so free.

But it's a one time charge. Once it's installed you don't shell out month to month just to see local tv.

[bubbaridesfast]

Wouldn't the car analogy be more like: All of the Nissan dealers sell the fancy new Altima with turbo, except in Milwaukee; they only carry the regular engine but still sell it at the same price. If you want the turbo you have to have a third party install it (and pay extra for it).

Call it complaining or not, but it's pretty pathetic that if I want to watch "local HD" that I would have to pay extra for it. Not only do I have to buy an antenna and run another ugly cable in my living room, but I also have to get a digi tuner because my older HDtv did not come with one. So free TV is not so free.

I also am disappointed in D*, in that they advertise Get Your Local Channels! like its a droppable feature. If that were the case, I should be able to call them and be able to elect to not take that "feature" and stick with the East or West or ALL of the feeds. I'm just sayin'!

Since when is everything in life free? You didn't buy an HDTV - you bought a monitor. People had to be careful in the early HD days because TV's with tuners were always much more expensive.

No offense meant but think about this, since you will not use an antennea, you already were resigned to paying for all of your locals anyway, whether in HD or SD. You are either paying for cable or paying for SAT to get your locals. The cheapest way has always been an antennea. The price of that OVER TIME is considerably less unless you try to reason that you want to pay TWC or SAT co's the extra for the other HD channels anyway.

Signed,
an early HD adopter who paid $50 for an antennea because once  upon a time there was no other HD available - $ well spent.

[PixelPete]

I see your guys' points but it's more than just money; heck I paid for all the components to get this far. It's also the non-user friendly nature of it all. And quite frankly I feel a little stupid for taking for granted that being with TWC all of these years it didn't even occur to me that one of the major network channels wouldn't be in HD on D*. It seems inconceivable to me.  
BTW, I got the antenna last night and the receiver today; I'm good to go.
It's not the money, it's the absurdity (and visual ugliness) of it all.

And yet some how I'm still having fun.

:Badger

{glug}

[Tom Snyder]

A little Math exercise.. DirecTV planned for 4 channels in each local market for starts (ABC, NBC, CBS and Fox). Here in Milwaukee 6 got one channel, 12 got one, and Channel 4 got two.  

How many signals does/will Wiegel have in Milwaukee that they would like on Satellite?  Is it to far a stretch that they might want all theirs available, and D* just doesn't have the bandwidth? So it's all or nothing?

[Bluto]

A little Math exercise.. DirecTV planned for 4 channels in each local market for starts (ABC, NBC, CBS and Fox). Here in Milwaukee 6 got one channel, 12 got one, and Channel 4 got two.  

How many signals does/will Wiegel have in Milwaukee that they would like on Satellite?  Is it to far a stretch that they might want all theirs available, and D* just doesn't have the bandwidth? So it's all or nothing?

Channel 4 only got 4-1, right?  4-2 isn't delivered by D*.

[Talos4]

Channel 4 only got 4-1, right?  4-2 isn't delivered by D*.

As far as I know that's correct. 4-2 does not show up on my Channels I get list.

[vegasvic]

That's correct.  Only one channel 4 on D*

[brewguru]

A little Math exercise.. DirecTV planned for 4 channels in each local market for starts (ABC, NBC, CBS and Fox). Here in Milwaukee 6 got one channel, 12 got one, and Channel 4 got two.  

How many signals does/will Wiegel have in Milwaukee that they would like on Satellite?  Is it to far a stretch that they might want all theirs available, and D* just doesn't have the bandwidth? So it's all or nothing?

Tom, I may be off-base here, but it seems you are always making excuses for Channel 58? Why is that?

Also, why would D* give WTMJ 2 channels (which is untrue) and neglect CBS? And when D* offered locals, Channel 41 or whatever else Channel 58 was doing wasn't even a factor.

[vegasvic]

I don't want to speak for Tom but I think he's just trying to give the other side of the issue.  

Personally I don't know who to believe but it does seem odd that the other stations have had no problem coming to an agreement with D*.  And we went through this before with the SD channels.

It would be a nice gesture for 58 to grant waivers to those that request them.  There can't be that many people requesting them and it would show some good will to their viewers.

[Tom Snyder]

I'm not making excuses for 58...

I'm like a lot of you guys... on those occasions where I've DVR'ed something from CBS58-1 OTA and start watching it, only to discover that wind in the trees, or some other atmospheric problem has caused my recording to become corrupted and unwatchable.. .and it's too late to switch to the SD version...

and I curse Jim Hall and D*.

I have asked Jim several times what the hold up was on 58 and D,* even with promises that it would not be published here...and he simply will not answer. I have requested a waiver, and personally requested attention to that waiver from Jim... and got rejected. I am by no means a member of the Jim Hall fan club.

Things get pretty ugly here sometimes. And I could come here and just fuel the fire. Or conversely, I could nuke posts and ban members...

But I'm choosing to raise the level of discourse, encourage intelligent dialogue by injecting some perspective and suggesting some possibilities that people just may not have thought about.

Yup... I stand corrected on 4-2. I just get it on my channel list and never pay attention to whether it is coming from my dish or my Radio Shack double bowtie. SO it would appear that D* has allocated just 4 channels for each market. No exception for WTMJ, but they were pragmatic and gave up on 4-2 and just settled for 4-1.  

What is D* offering to 58, and what are 58's demands?  I have no clue, and I can only guess... but it's unfair (and probably a bit foolish) for me to think I know enough to make accusations and call people names based on that guess.

Oh.. as long as we keep complaining, it maintains the pressure for both sides to get a deal done (not sure which side actually benefits).. and waivers just would lesson that pressure.

[vegasvic]

You're right, none of us know what DirecTV is offering 58 and what 58 is asking for.  

It does seem odd that 4, 6 and 12 can come to an agreement and 58 can't.  And the EXACT same thing happened with SD.

It could be that 4,6 and 12 are much more successful stations and don't need to try to squeeze out every last nickel they can and they actually think about their viewers needs.  But that's just a guess.

[brewguru]

I'm not making excuses for 58...

I'm like a lot of you guys... on those occasions where I've DVR'ed something from CBS58-1 OTA and start watching it, only to discover that wind in the trees, or some other atmospheric problem has caused my recording to become corrupted and unwatchable.. .and it's too late to switch to the SD version...

and I curse Jim Hall and D*.

I have asked Jim several times what the hold up was on 58 and D,* even with promises that it would not be published here...and he simply will not answer. I have requested a waiver, and personally requested attention to that waiver from Jim... and got rejected. I am by no means a member of the Jim Hall fan club.

Things get pretty ugly here sometimes. And I could come here and just fuel the fire. Or conversely, I could nuke posts and ban members...

But I'm choosing to raise the level of discourse, encourage intelligent dialogue by injecting some perspective and suggesting some possibilities that people just may not have thought about.

Yup... I stand corrected on 4-2. I just get it on my channel list and never pay attention to whether it is coming from my dish or my Radio Shack double bowtie. SO it would appear that D* has allocated just 4 channels for each market. No exception for WTMJ, but they were pragmatic and gave up on 4-2 and just settled for 4-1.  

What is D* offering to 58, and what are 58's demands?  I have no clue, and I can only guess... but it's unfair (and probably a bit foolish) for me to think I know enough to make accusations and call people names based on that guess.

Oh.. as long as we keep complaining, it maintains the pressure for both sides to get a deal done (not sure which side actually benefits).. and waivers just would lesson that pressure.

Fair enough, Tom.

But I think from Jim Hall's refusal to answer qustions from you, from me, from anyone, that Channel 58 is asking for the moon and he knows it.

They are being unfair to the consumer and he knows it.

[jeaves79]

Fair enough, Tom.

But I think from Jim Hall's refusal to answer qustions from you, from me, from anyone, that Channel 58 is asking for the moon and he knows it.

They are being unfair to the consumer and he knows it.

It's because Jim Hall doesn't care one bit what the consumer thinks.  

I believe that he's got a deal with TWC.  He pushes TWC and OTA on everyone who complains because he doesn't want to deal with DirecTV anymore than he has to.  Nothing else explains why NBC, FOX and ABC cut deals with DirecTV, and CBS58 won't.