Any further Time-Warner "Navigator" software news?

[gparris]

Good ideas, Jack 1000, but no...no way.

I visited a few offices and mall kiosks of TWC and no one had a clue as to what was going on (big surprise).:rolleyes:

They knew what Navigator was, but that was about it....nada, nothing...clueless!

TWC will dump it on unsuspecting DVR subs without any more notice and it will be every TWC subscriber to themselves, honestly.
We will be the Beta-test guinea pigs like TWC Nebraska and many dozens of TWC subs will flee to their local TWC offices and return their DVRs and probably, dump their service.

What we can do here in this forum, is continue to allow others to notice that it is coming and what to do when it does (ugh!) arrive and assist this way.

[kevbeck122]

Channel 1999 - AOD is specific to Navigator on my 4250HDC.  If anyone has an 8300HDC, they can check as well and it will probably be Navigator specific.  I'm sure the channel will switch to Navigator on the Passport boxes once they dump Navigator on them.

[Jack 1000]

Good ideas, Jack 1000, but no...no way.

I visited a few offices and mall kiosks of TWC and no one had a clue as to what was going on (big surprise).:rolleyes:

They knew what Navigator was, but that was about it....nada, nothing...clueless!

TWC will dump it on unsuspecting DVR subs without any more notice and it will be every TWC subscriber to themselves, honestly.
We will be the Beta-test guinea pigs like TWC Nebraska and many dozens of TWC subs will flee to their local TWC offices and return their DVRs and probably, dump their service.

What we can do here in this forum, is continue to allow others to notice that it is coming and what to do when it does (ugh!) arrive and assist this way.

I actually have seen a FEW PDF files on a Navigator starter booklet at some TWC state sites, but they probably wouldn't have any more information than what is offered on the Answers on Demand channel now.

Jack

[gparris]

Thanks, I have to say that I enjoy the new and different, but not at my expense such as my cable bill and now the DVR service is going from $7.95 to $8.50 per box per month, too.
If Navigator had good reports from it on the DVR side from other TWC locations, it wouldn't be so frightening.
We forum folks are more technology minded and most subs aren't, even if they have HDTVs and got them hooked up with the correct STBs, cabling and even a surround audio setup.
I hope TWC is testing the software and informs us of any possible bugs before it is launched upon us.

[Jack 1000]

It was mentioned that TWC is rolling out Navigator by box model number.  For references, what are the CURRENT OCAP box manufactures serviced through Time Warner and what are the known LEGACY non-OCAP boxes that are "in the field?"

I know that for DVR in Milwaukee they are all Scientific Atlanta (SA) units.  (The AVS Forum had reported some States had Moterola DVR's, but they had problems in the labs.)  Other than that, the legacy boxes as I understand are Pioneer (the oldest box), Pace (newer), and Scientific Atlanta. (newest)  I don't think there are Moterolla DVR's here.  Are the new non-DVR boxes, (The ones where Navigator was test downloaded to last January) in Milwaukee all SA units? Did they finish those downloads in January to each of the legacy SA boxes, or stop the downloads of Navigator on them,when it was learned of the problems in other markets, primarily Lincon Nebraska?

Last Spring when I called TWC about Navigator's rollout I got the response that the oldest boxes (The Pioneer units) were being done LAST because of them being the oldest models.  The plan was to do the DVR boxes first, than I believe it was the non-DVR SA boxes (newest models first.) than the Pace's (newest models first.)  Than finishing with the Pioneer's.  I also got the same form e-mail that was mentioned about Navigator's rollout last year discussed above.

AFAIK, other than the new OCAP units having Navigator, (DVR C boxes and non DVR C-boxes) I do not recall ANY other boxes besides those non-OCAP SA models being Navigatored since January-March of last year.  What is interesting, is that someone reported that their HD Pioneer box (post is on this forum) got Navigator, and the only complaint was that the "Preview Pane" was blank. Now this is a GOOD thing, because if the lesser memory legacy boxes can handle Navigator, the more memory DVR's might have more success because of the additional memory.  If the CABLE CARDS in these new boxes are the main culprit, with regards to how Navigator reacts with them, and the legacy boxes are able to remove the cable card conflict, we could FINALLY be on to some positives with this new software.

There was a post reported on the AVS forum from a user in another state. They claim TWC said  when Navigator was tested on the different model boxes in their labs, it behaved well on 97% of the models tested. (I think that's way too high, maybe more like 40%!)  But TWC did say that there are about 40 different models of boxes and DVR's serviced by them  throughout the USA. Navigator has been horror on the models that they did not specifically test.

I talked about this on the AVS forums, and that is why when they rollout a new OS like this, it's more than the box or DVR that's involved.  It's the age of the head-end equipment, how often the head-end equipment is updated, the quality of the call/communication centers, the skill (or lack of same) by the programmers and field techs, the speed of data transfer, the age of the boxes/DVR's, EVEN WHAT THE BOX OR DVR IS DOING WHEN THE UPGRADE IS APPLIED MAY ALL FACTOR INTO THIS.  The example that I used is an alphabet continuum, where as each letter:

ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ represents a quality check point that Navigator or any new IPG applied to the cable system must pass to achieve above average status.  If the early designers of this project would have know what they were doing, we could have been at the letter V by now.  The problem was that TWC on a national level was so sure that the "new and cool technolgy" would just take care of itself.  They believed that somehow, some automatic updates would solve the problem last year, and released this thing at about a letter D, when it had no business being deployed at that time.

So the big questions are:

1.) How many of those alphabet check points have been tested before the rollout to legacy boxes and DVR's begins?

2.) What are the credentials of the people doing the testing? (I am being serious here.)

3.) How well does the head end and their communications network get updated and tested to handle the change over?  It appears that so many divisions of TWC are at different stages of this "alphabet test phase," which might explain why there is so much fluctuation in Navigator's performance from market to market.

Jack

[kevbeck122]

As far as I know, the only boxes they're currently offering are SAs.  Whatever is still out there (Pioneer, Pace, SA) will still work, but all replacements will be SA if the box needs to be replaced AFAIK.  I had the Pace box early last year and got Navigator probably about a month after getting the box.  I really wonder how well it runs on the Pioneer boxes.  I remember Passport being very slow on HD channels when I had a Pioneer box.  With the Pace box everything was good until the Navigator upgrade when frequent reboots had to be done, channel changes were very slow, the guide had issues.  I'm having the exact same problems with the SA4250... except this box takes 3-15 minutes to boot up if I have to do a reboot.  The signal coming in my house is very good, so I know that's not the problem.

[Jack 1000]

Thought I would share this reply from TWC when I e-mailed them to ask when Navigator would be forced on us here in Kenosha.

Thank you for writing to Time Warner Cable.

Time Warner Cable is upgrading the software in all of our converters to the new Navigator system which will enhance your television viewing. This upgrade is being performed one converter model at a time to insure its completion without any problems. While the upgrade is taking longer than expected, our programmers are working as quickly as possible to bring this new service to all of our Customers. You will not need to exchange your cable converter to receive the upgraded software. The upgrade is slated to be completed before 12/31/07. Your patience in the mean time is greatly appreciated.

How's everyone doing with their boxes?  Nothing new here yet, except the Caller ID on TV for my Passport box is reduced from its regular size.  Anything different or unusual for anybody else?

Jack

[Jack 1000]

On January 30th, according to the TWC Wisconsin Website, TWC is removing the Answers on Demand Channels (1998-Spanish), (1999) for its line up.  This would appear to indicate that Navigator will be in place by that time for everyone.

I wonder if they are doing this to free up bandwidth or just to remove all Passport information from the system?  AOD could have been helpful for Navigator information.  Does TWC have to renew its licensing fees with Passport, as they have chosen not to do, in order to carry that channel?  Do you think it could be a bandwidth issue or something else?

Jack

[gparris]

Answers on Demand, like all other On-Demand channels, are like SDV (in a way), as these channels take up no bandwidth, until your cable box requests them.
If TWC wanted to add bandwidth, it would require knowledgeable personnel that could do it, but obviously they haven't got them yet:
We would have those other dozen HD channels being added that are still missing here that are available in almost every other TWC location in the country, by now.

As for Navigator, they want to add on other features and don't want to pay Aptiv for it, they think it's "cheaper" from them to do it themselves.
But as subscribers leave in droves for other providers because "Crapagator" gets them angry, that so-called "cost savings" on that will disappear really fast.

[Cheesehead Dave]

I finally got tired of all the stuttering video and freezes from my 8300HD box, so I stopped by TWC-Kenosha this afternoon to trade it in. I got an 8300HDC in its place, and it came pre-installed with the new software.

After plugging it in and scratching my head over why I couldn't hear anything, I realized that I specifically had to go into the settings menu and specify that I was solely using HDMI for audio.

The new remote they game me is inoperative. Good thing I still have the old one, as well as the Harmony.

The box takes forever to boot up, at least five minutes.

I haven't had time to fully explore the software yet, but I can say that it does seem slower than before. Sometimes I'll press a button and nothing will seem to happen. I'll press a couple other things and still nothing will happen. Then suddenly, it turns out the box was buffering all my button presses as everything gets executed.

The new menus are a bit jarring, especially after being used to the old ones for so long. They are considerably easier to read, thanks to the new font.

On the plus side, there's an option to have black bars on the sides of the screen instead of grey when viewing 4:3 shows. Also, it looks like I can easily sort my recorded shows by title and not just by date.

The box has Firewire ports on the back; I'll have to check out the instructions in the AVS forums and see if I can get them to send video to my computer.

Except for the lag issue, so far I'm giving it a cautious thumbs up. We'll see what it's like after I get a few shows recorded and it has to deal with conflicts.

Edit: Here come the bugs...

Bug #1: When viewing any 720p channels, if I jump to the channel guide, then exit, the picture doesn't go back to full screen; it stays the size and position of the preview window in the upper right corner. I have to switch channels and switch back to get full screen back.

Bug #2: When watching a recorded show, I can't see the time bar at the bottom. When I hit the info button, all the window shows is "Off air: 9:00 am - 1:00 pm" with no timer. So there's no way to see how far into a recorded show you are.

[gparris]

No "thumbs up" for me at all...it all sucks big time with Crapagator:

"After plugging it in and scratching my head over why I couldn't hear anything, I realized that I specifically had to go into the settings menu and specify that I was solely using HDMI for audio."

-TWC could "spare the time" and preset it for digital audio output via toslink?
-Great way to start off!:rolleyes:

"The box takes forever to boot up, at least five minutes."

No way, especially for "advanced" tech today, my computer boots faster than that...get with the "program", TWC.

"Bug #1: When viewing any 720p channels, if I jump to the channel guide, then exit, the picture doesn't go back to full screen; it stays the size and position of the preview window in the upper right corner. I have to switch channels and switch back to get full screen back."

I would want to set it to 1080i for all output, if Crapagator "allows" it.

"Bug #2: When watching a recorded show, I can't see the time bar at the bottom. When I hit the info button, all the window shows is "Off air: 9:00 am - 1:00 pm" with no timer. So there's no way to see how far into a recorded show you are."

TWC: It's like this:
You had good operation with Passport, this is a DOWNGRADE: You want to see how far the recording's  playback is!

DON'T you WANT us to WANT DVRs?:confused:

Thanks for input, Cheesehead Dave:

Now I know its going to be a battle with the DVRs once Navigator is installed and I think if this is its final release:
It is time for refunds on the DVR service @$8.50/month per box until they fix it!:mad:

[Cheesehead Dave]

I would want to set it to 1080i for all output, if Crapagator "allows" it.

I do have it set like that. Doesn't make any difference.

Edit: Upon further review, after I was playing around and pulled the HDMI cable out and plugged it back in, the box auto-detected it. Now, many of the audio and video settings screens say "This cannot be manually set when using HDMI or DVI."

In other words, now I can't force 1080i output from the box, so every channel change now forces the TV to have to change resolutions.

[gparris]

Gee, thanks again for the info...I'm not blaming the sender (you).

It just keeps on getting worse, not better, having TWC for cableTV, lately.

I am trying to document these details and when TWC Wisconsin dumps Crapagator on unsuspecting DVR subscribers and these problems, amongst others still persist...(well, you know the rest).

[kevbeck122]

I do have it set like that. Doesn't make any difference.

Edit: Upon further review, after I was playing around and pulled the HDMI cable out and plugged it back in, the box auto-detected it. Now, many of the audio and video settings screens say "This cannot be manually set when using HDMI or DVI."

In other words, now I can't force 1080i output from the box, so every channel change now forces the TV to have to change resolutions.

I know you don't want to hear this.. switch to component and some of your problems will be solved.  It stays at the resolution you have set, and it brings the full picture back when closing the guide.  I saw both of those problems when I used HDMI.

[gparris]

kevbeck122: Thanks!
Same here, I always use component video with the 8300HDs and those with HD STBs w/o DVRs because it just behaves better and no one says they can see the difference.
Avoid as many irritations a possible and it's 1080i (or 720p) output, anyway.

STBs as the H20/HR20s seem to work well with AVRs and HDMI, but then again, that is another provider, too (Directv).