Any further Time-Warner "Navigator" software news?

[gb4fan92]

Direct tv boxes can be purchased at retail stores directly. So if you are looking for something specific that would be your best bet. Otherwise you would be at the mercy of the installation company as to which box they bring over to you.

[gparris]

Thanks for the information...if I can get the pricing, fine, if not, at least the box works great and no Navigator once and for all (once Mystro Navigator hits my 8300HD DVRs).

The all-black HR21 will match my HT equipment (vs. the ugly TWC box), though it weighs a little more, it will still fit in most locations my 8300HD's do now.
I read that the "-100" series was the best model, though not the "Pro" model, which is more than I desire with a 2-box HD DVR minimum requirement in my household.
Additionally,  I leave the top and side areas around the DVR boxes open with plenty of ventilation, already.

[rdduke]

Before you begin reading, note this is a lengthy post, and I thank those of you that take the time to read it in advance.
I contacted Bev Greenberg's office in December and continued communicating with her staff.   I started receiving communications from her office (phone and email) only after I contacted my local city TWC liaison and complained about the pending rollout and Navigator's failures in other markets.  He received my response, did the research himself, and contacted TWC and opened the door to my communications.
    Noted, my initial communication to TWC was following the Dec 12 mailing advising us subscribers that Navigator was on its way and would be arriving soon.  My communications eventually put me in touch with the lead Engineer responsible for the Navigator deployment in SE Wisconsin, which lasted for almost an hour.
   During the conversation the Engineer advised that they were delaying the rollout due to issues that they discovered and thus needed an update before they could roll it out and that current projections put deployment sometime around the end of 1st quarter 2008 to the beginning of the 2nd.
   He further talked to the point that TWC had to deploy Navigator for approximately 100 different versions of both Set-Top and DVR's.  We spoke of how they were going to maintain the quality in the midst of such a huge number of versions.  We spoke of revision levels within the versions of boxes.   He indicated that while TWC was going to develop to the version level, they WERE NOT going to be developing Navigator to the revision level of the box itself.  I indicated that this in fact would lead to more issues, as testing at the revision level might not be possible, it would in fact allow more issues to surface.  
   I asked and inquired if it was possible to get the same version of boxes and the same revision level on all my boxes.  He indicated that it would be difficult to do - but not impossible and agreed that this would certainly aid one in having a more stable experience with the roll-out of Navigator.
   In the conversation, I asked the Engineer for a list of known issues and a schedule for when they would be fixed, suggesting that in every software deployment there are issues that fall within 3 categories:  1.) those that would be addressed prior to deployment, 2.) those to be fixed within the deployment window, and 3.) those to be fixed post deployment.
   The engineer stated that while they had a list they would not publish that information to the public or to their subscriber base.  My comment to the engineer was that their competition would use it to their advantage and he knew it and who could blame them – while he did not deny this, he did not admit it either.
   I inquired of the Engineer about TWC's deployment of Navigator in other markets.  I clearly asked if they had considered the lessons learned in other markets deployed, to which no answer was given.  I also asked, given the current announced delay of Navigator did they not experience these same issues in other markets in which Navigator was deployed.  The answer to this question was not clear, but the conclusion drawn in the conversation is that TWC in SE Wisconsin is doing more than 'tweaking' code from other markets.  
   I indicated that by allowing each market region to be responsible for maintaining own ("almost 100") versions of Navigator and not applying lessons-learned in other markets, and working for a time-tested stable version of Navigator how could TWC ever reach an acceptable level of quality within it's rollout of Navigator.
   I made mention of this forum and others in my conversation, and the Engineer made me aware that TWC was aware of this board, and the various posts regarding Navigator and other issues.
  During my initial conversations with the staff at TWC I kept in communication Ms. Greenberg's office and for a while I was at least getting email responses that indicated that she had read my mail and even sent me an email thanking me for bringing performance issues that were reported to her attention.  Now, this email from Ms. Greenberg was a brush-off for sure, but earlier communications with TWC were clearly made at the request of TWC's management.
  In my very last email to Ms. Greenberg I copied a URL link to a video referenced on this site to Ms. Greenberg to demonstrate how bad Navigator was.  The video, and some of you have viewed it, demonstrated clearly issues not only with performance as a whole, but with the interface and navigation in general.  Unfortunately, that email to Ms. Greenberg was returned with a message that it had been deleted before being read.  
   TWC will clearly be making huge sums of money off you, me and everyone else on a product that just might not be ready for prime-time deployment..  Ask yourself, what is TWC's success rate with Navigator?  
   Why not apply that same success rate to other manufacturers, software or not.  What would happen to any of these if they were to deliver a product that was so poorly received?  Think of those companies that make software products for Banking and Finance, Health and Travel.  Most would find themselves in a position of offering a refund, or being recalled.  Some, given the nature of the failure would or could even find themselves held accountable financially.
    Now, I know that what TWC officers with Navigator isn't going to save your life, or mine for that matter, that is unless you're using what TWC as your escape and your stress-reliever, TWC isn't offering anything more than a delivery of digital electronic content for many purposes including, entertainment, educational and/or informational.
   Notwithstanding this fact and this position, do you not think that you should at least be getting to watch that content without having to fight the interface responsible for selection and delivery, all with the option of assuring that you will be able to watch the same, in a schedule more adaptive to your individual scheduled?  I for one do!  
   This isn't about the fee you and I pay individually, it's about the amount of money TWC collects monthly on these services, and the apparent need or continued ability to deliver sub-quality service in a digital world, across multiple regional markets, that are plagued with a disparity of product offerings and services, region by region while maintaining almost the same market rates for subscriptions to the end customer.  Example, my cousin in another market pays the same as I and get remarkably more HD Channels and many of the ones we don't and didn't, such as the History Channel, and their cost of living in the metro-area they live in is remarkably less than here in SE Wisconsin.
   Again, I got involved, and reached out, and I challenge each of you to do the same that I have been doing.  Go pull the notes from city hall meetings around the country where folks have been complaining about Navigator since the day it was rolled out.  See the recommendations of the city councils members, regarding Navigator.  See the actions that were taken at the county and some cases, State level.
   I'm not sitting on my laurels waiting for delivery.  I'm reaching out to TWC in advance of the roll-out.  I'm communicating, although now, it may be a worthless effort.  I'm working to understand the issues as they may affect me, now and into the future.  I will increase my communication threads to include not only the CEO of TWC, but the Board of Directors, who must answer to ownership by stockholders.  I will eventually, take the same level of communication to the State, then Federal level beyond.  I have a paper trail of communications on this topic, and should you have the same, I encourage you to put it forth.  Navigator will either get better, or get worse.  If it gets better and performance improves, great!  If not, and it gets worse, will Wisconsin become another Nebraska where TWC is held accountable.  In the end, I want to be able to say "TWC was well advised, and well informed of the issues", and given the information, if enough people put it forth first to TWC, and then to their local governments, then on to state and federal levels, and carbon copying TWC each time, TWC cannot plead "ignorance of the issues" any longer, and local governments thus cannot continue to thwart competition in the face of poor sub-quality and sub-standard performance.
   As I stated when I started this post, this board is very, very helpful to many, but as a 'soap-box' it doesn't work.  Yes, TWC and its management team may monitor this and many other AV Forum Sites, and they may have 'moles' registered to provide propaganda, promises and yet to be delivered services.  We've all read or heard the comment that an 'anonymous friend" says TWC will be announcing or release this, or that channel or service by this, or that date, only to find the date come and gone.  Now, some hold true, others do not, but by and large, it's propaganda that they are pushing all in an effort to you as their subscriber, more often than not.

[Jack 1000]

Many locations on other forums are reporting an early April rollout for Navigator.  It is possible that the Passport contracts and reciprocity agreements between TWC and Passport expire this month.  A user on the AVS forum commented that it makes sense for contractual agreements to expire by the end of the month.  April 1st is being thrown around the grapevine.

I would start preparing.  Don't be recording anything or playing back any DVR recordings between 2-4 am this week if you can avoid it.  This might make the download easier.  Start watching any DVR recordings that you value just in case they are lost.  Back up what you can.

Based on the information going around.  I think most of us will have Navigator by the end of the week, or the beginning of next week.  

Jack

[PWFD81]

Many locations on other forums are reporting an early April rollout for Navigator.  It is possible that the Passport contracts and reciprocity agreements between TWC and Passport expire this month.  A user on the AVS forum commented that it makes sense for contractual agreements to expire by the end of the month.  April 1st is being thrown around the grapevine.

I would start preparing.  Don't be recording anything or playing back any DVR recordings between 2-4 am this week if you can avoid it.  This might make the download easier.  Start watching any DVR recordings that you value just in case they are lost.  Back up what you can.

Based on the information going around.  I think most of us will have Navigator by the end of the week, or the beginning of next week.  

Jack

Jack, I think you are right.  From what an installer told me from TWC the updates are done Wednesdays and Thursday nights.  He told me probably this week on me 8300HDDVR!

I hope he is wrong, but I don't think he is.

[nick3092]

Well, so much for the Wed/Thu theory.  My parents called me today because their 8000HD guide looked "odd".  Sure enough, their box was loaded with Navigator last night.  So us 8300HD users are probably next....

[LoadStar]

I would put good money on it coming down the line overnight to 8300HD users.

I decided to put my box and recorded programs at risk, and I rebooted my box (holding the power button down). When it came back up, I lost all guide data. In addition, I can't tune to anything above channel 75.... my guess is that they've turned off the systems the Explorer boxes talk to at the head end.

I'll try a hard reboot, see if that changes anything.

ETA: Never mind... a hard reboot brought back guide data and all channels.

[Jack 1000]

Yea,

I mean we all don't want this thing.  But at the same time, I think that communities are just tired of the "waiting game." This is especially true since we are getting it without warning.  It's like the old expression " s**t, or get off the pot already."  The longer we wait, the more inconvenience and uncertainty with our records and settings exists.  What SUCKS, and is APPALLING, is that we customers have to "guess" when we are going to get this upgrade.  I think that's such b.s!  Other communities outside of Wisconsin got a week warning....not us!  Can anyone think of a good reason or any justification why TWC doesn't even want to let customers know that Navigator is coming any day or night at this point?  WTF are they doing keeping this a secret?  I don't understand that.

Jack

PS.  For my guide data on Passport after Wednesday night going into Thursday morning, it shows "No Data" for both the grid and the shows.  Not that this hasn't happened before from time to time.  But I think the next automatic communication with the head-end will be Navigator on the 8300 HD DVR's.

[gparris]

Jack 1000, Thursday could very well be N-Day, Navigator Day, or even Friday of this week.

-Or as I see it, "end-of-the-line" for TWC payTV service for many other HD subscribers:
JUST THE BEGINNING !(of the end to subs leaving more than ever, in droves).

Now many folks, I'm certain, have the 8300HD boxes, including the 8300 (SD boxes) some even the older 8000 series boxes, none of which I know have Navigator messing them up (yet), unless these are those "C" boxes.:p

So the end "result" will be crappy slow Navigator, nothing like the HD channel selection like Texas, NY or the Carolinas, just the same crappy HD channel lineup, same pricing as those with more HD channel selection and frak'up subscribers.

-Gosh, I can hardly wait!:mad:

[Kenoman]

Yea,

PS.  For my guide data on Passport after Wednesday night going into Thursday morning, it shows "No Data" for both the grid and the shows.  Not that this hasn't happened before from time to time.  But I think the next automatic communication with the head-end will be Navigator on the 8300 HD DVR's.

Jack for what it's worth last night we were watching Idol and all of a sudden ny SA8300HD box re-booted. Now this has happened before but what makes this strange that on the TV it showed a grey screen with darker boxes moving across the middle of the screen indicating it was re-booting. Usually it's a screen with an Aptiva logo with small boxes under the logo.  The box had a 2 on it during the re-boot.
After the re-boot all appears normal. Still Passport.

[Jack 1000]

Jack for what it's worth last night we were watching Idol and all of a sudden ny SA8300HD box re-booted. Now this has happened before but what makes this strange that on the TV it showed a grey screen with darker boxes moving across the middle of the screen indicating it was re-booting. Usually it's a screen with an Aptiva logo with small boxes under the logo.  The box had a 2 on it during the re-boot.
After the re-boot all appears normal. Still Passport.

Kenoman,

I also had a reboot of my SA8300 HD box about two hours ago.  But this was not unusual.  Unlike your experience, this was a conventional Power TV/ Passport Echo boot sequence.  It happened while I was browsing in the guide.

My guess is that they are forcing a soft boot of all boxes before the download of Navigator is applied to them.  We are just waiting for that first strike of Navigator on an 8300 HD DVR.  Whenever that happens I am sure that within 3 days, all of us will have Navigator.

AFAIK, no boxes are getting the download during the day.  I am sure that users will correct me on this if this is wrong, or their experience is different.  The download of Navigator is still generally 2am-4am lasting about 30-60 mins on the night of the changeover.

Jack

[gparris]

Thursday is out, maybe early Friday AM, as one would think, but you never know.

It's just like those HD channel rollouts (you can assume) that will never occur
 -to make it the same as those "Free HD" channel lineups that appear on other TWC locations' programme guides (with notice there, of course):

http://www.timewarnercable.com/InvestorRelations/PressReleases/TWCPressReleaseDivDetail.ashx?PRID=2193&MarketID=50

It will just happen and that will be it!

[Jack 1000]

Thursday is out, maybe early Friday AM, as one would think, but you never know.

It's just like those HD channel rollouts (you can assume) that will never occur
 -to make it the same as those "Free HD" channel lineups that appear on other TWC locations' programme guides (with notice there, of course):

http://www.timewarnercable.com/InvestorRelations/PressReleases/TWCPressReleaseDivDetail.ashx?PRID=2193&MarketID=50

It will just happen and that will be it!

Gparris,

Do you think by the end of next week, most will have it?

Jack

[Kenoman]

Gparris,

Do you think by the end of next week, most will have it?

Jack

Got hit last night with Navigator. Of course it's too early to see if any problems exist. Will keep you informed,
I'm in Kenosha and have a SA8300HD box.

p.s. For all of you waiting for this update (heee heee) be forewarned, be sure you set your tv volume down. When they update they return the sound to the tv, When I turned all on this morning the tv was at full volume and woke up the whole neighborhood.

[Cheesehead Dave]

Got hit last night with Navigator. Of course it's too early to see if any problems exist. Will keep you informed,
I'm in Kenosha and have a SA8300HD box.

p.s. For all of you waiting for this update (heee heee) be forewarned, be sure you set your tv volume down. When they update they return the sound to the tv, When I turned all on this morning the tv was at full volume and woke up the whole neighborhood.

I'll be awaiting the call from my in-laws when I get home tonight, wondering what happened to their TV... :rolleyes: