Uverse Install

[picopir8]

Well I made the jump and they will be here next week to get me all installed.  Reading around, it appears that they will run wires for free, if needed.  Some people say that they charge extra for cat5 though.  I was wondering if anyone in the milwaukee area had cat5 cable run and if it did, was there any extra charge.

My place is wired with cable of various cable and I was planning on ripping out the bad stuff before they come, but if running cat5 is reasonable then I will rip everything out and have that done.

Also, is the cat5 dedicated for video or can I tie it in to the rest of my LAN?

[TPK]

Well I made the jump and they will be here next week to get me all installed.  Reading around, it appears that they will run wires for free, if needed.  Some people say that they charge extra for cat5 though.  I was wondering if anyone in the milwaukee area had cat5 cable run and if it did, was there any extra charge.

My place is wired with cable of various cable and I was planning on ripping out the bad stuff before they come, but if running cat5 is reasonable then I will rip everything out and have that done.

Also, is the cat5 dedicated for video or can I tie it in to the rest of my LAN?

The installers prefer to run CAT5 instead of coax, and they don't charge for it (at least they didnt try to charge me for it)...

Although coax is nice because it gives you the option of moving the box and using the coax run later on to pipe the RF output from a box to the various rooms in your home (hard to do with cat5)...  Remember, if your moving from TWC you will no longer have an option of simply plugging a coax into the back of your TV for your analog channels...  All TV has to go through one of ther set top boxes...  My plan is to move a box next to the RG and use the RF channel-3 output of that box to pipe video to the various 'secondary' TVs in my home like the TV in the kitchen and the one in the spare bedroom and in the den I don't use that much, etc...

Although I would imagine that the cat5 is probably superior for the networking infrastructure than the HPNA networking that is used for the coax hookups... I do not know the specifics on HPNA, but I imagine that there is some sort of maximum number of boxes that can be hooked up to the single coax output provided on the RG..  There is probably some shared bandwith limitation on the coax, whereas the CAT5 is run to the 4-port switch in the RG so each run probably has a dedicated 100Mb connection to the RG...

Instead of ripping out your existing cat5, you can just tell them that you are using it for your existing network infrastructure, and that its important for your business, and that they cannot use the existing wiring...  They will (well, should) respect that and not touch your existing wiring...

The switch in the RG is a standard ethernet 10/100 switch, and the RJ-45 jack on the set top boxes is standard 100Mb ethernet....   So yes, the TV set top boxes and the computers are all on the same LAN...  You can potentially take a single cat5 run from the RG, plug it into an ethernet switch, and then use the switch to plug in two or more set top boxes, and it will work...   You can also plug in a computer to the same switch and have it be on the internet as well...  Of course in doing this, you are essentially 'sharing' a single 100 megabit connection back to the RG, so I am not sure how many boxes you can put on a single connection back to the RG before the boxes start to run out of bandwith...    Given that the entire bandwidth provided to the RG over the incoming twisted pair is 22 megabit (soon to be dobuled to 44 megabit I guess), Im guessing you could run all your computers and all your boxes off of a single 100Mb port and not run into any bandwitdh issues...

If you use the RG as your internet router (as 99 percent of subscibers will), then all devices in your home, including the set top boxes, are on the same subnet on the LAN...   The RG can also act as a wireless access point as well, so you can 'wire' up your laptop computers and even desktop computers wirelessly to the RG that way as well...  I heard that they will install a wireless USB adaptor on your computer for free, but I didn't need that for my installation...

Since (if setting it up this way) all devices are on the same LAN, if you have an existing DHCP server (if you are using a standard internet routing device like a linksys or a d-link router, chances are it has a DHCP server running on it) it will have to be removed from the network, or have its LAN side DCHP services turned off (most of these devices have a web based setup page where you can web into it and configure services like DCHP), as the RG will become the new DCHP server on your LAN.  The RG's DCHP server will serve up local IP addresses to your set top boxes and your computers on the network..  Having two DCHP servers on the same LAN is usually very bad and will cause many many problems for you...

Personally, I think that putting all the TV and the local LAN traffic all on the same subnet is bad networking, and potentially dangerous, so I opted to use my own router, and configured the RG to bridge over to my router for my internet connection...  So really, in my home, I have the TV and the LAN on two different subnets...  Stuff plugged directly into the RG (the set top boxes) are on the 192.168.1.x subnet, and stuff plugged into my local lan is on a 192.168.35.x subnet....   Using the DMZPlus feature in the RG, I was able to bridge the internet over to my router (running coyote linux), and as far as my router is concerned, its set up the same way as it was with TWC, with a direct ethernet connection to the internet with a real internet IP address..  I can still plug stuff directly into the RG if I want and use those devices on the internet, but then that stuff will be on a different subnet from the rest of my LAN....  I may actually do that with my xbox 360, since I dont care if its not on my local network and plugging it directly into the RG means that it will have one less router-hop to go through when playing games and might reduce latency....

[picopir8]

Well, my existing cabling is all coax, not cat5 so I cant use the business network excuse but I guess I can claim that I am keeping TWC, or reattaching a dish and do not want them to touch the coax.

I will likely use two subnets to keep most of my network devices on the other network. However, would like one of the boxes installed near some network devices which are now connected to a wireless bridge.  That bridge is very flakey and I would prefer to place a switch near the new box and connect the bridged devices to the switch then remove the bridge.  I can live with these few devices being on a different subnet if I dont have to run my own wires or get a new bridge.

The only downfall it it looks like my router will now be on a subnet.  Im running a hacked wrt-54GS which updates my IP at Dyndns.org if it ever changes but it needs to have the household IP assigned to the WAN address in order to work properly.  So unless the box that uverse gives me does the same thing, Ill have to look into getting a static IP.

[TPK]

Well, my existing cabling is all coax, not cat5 so I cant use the business network excuse but I guess I can claim that I am keeping TWC, or reattaching a dish and do not want them to touch the coax.

I will likely use two subnets to keep most of my network devices on the other network. However, would like one of the boxes installed near some network devices which are now connected to a wireless bridge.  That bridge is very flakey and I would prefer to place a switch near the new box and connect the bridged devices to the switch then remove the bridge.  I can live with these few devices being on a different subnet if I dont have to run my own wires or get a new bridge.

The only downfall it it looks like my router will now be on a subnet.  Im running a hacked wrt-54GS which updates my IP at Dyndns.org if it ever changes but it needs to have the household IP assigned to the WAN address in order to work properly.  So unless the box that uverse gives me does the same thing, Ill have to look into getting a static IP.

Just put a TV near where the wireless bridge is, and tell them you want a box at that TV, and potentially hook a computer up to it later (tell them that you have your own network switch, as I dont think they provide extra switches for you)...  Hopefully they will opt to make a cat-5 run from the RG to the TV, and you will end up with a network port there....   I wouldnt trust wireless to deliver streaming video, it always ends up too flakey for that....

For the network, it sounds to me like your going to want to do the same thing I did (I also have a hacked WRG-54G and I use that for my wireless...  I have a seperate router running on an old PC)...   You can use your router just like it is being used now, if you configure the RG to bridge your router with its DMZPlus feature....   When you do it this way, the router assumes the true (real) internet IP address, and everything will work as it did before....  Your router is happy that it has a real IP addres, and your dynamic DNS address will be updated properly, since as far as your router is concerned its connected directly to the internet just like it was before...  Anyhow thats what I did and everything works (incoming email, website, etc), and I had to make no configuration changes on my existing router whatsoever...

All you have to do is connect your router's WAN port to the RG's network (I imagine it doesnt matter if its connected directly to the RG, or connect to a switch that connects to the RG) and let it (temporarily) DCHP a local address from the RG...  After that happens, you can configure the RG to set up your router as the DMZPlus device (you can identify it by its MAC address), and then reboot your router (if your impatient, like me, you will get confused because after you set it up as the DMZplus device, it gets cut off  from the network until you reboot it)....

When the router reboots, it will DHCP an address from the RG..  However this time the IP address will be the actual internet IP address, and the RG knows to forward all traffic (except traffic designated for the RG I suppose, I am not sure what TCP/UDP ports it is using) to your router, and NAT only has to be peformed once, at your router....

Your router is not put on the RG's subnet...  Your router performs the NAT, and the NAT only has to be done once...   Your network behind your router can be on one subnet with its own DCHP server (you can just let your router continue to be your LAN's DCHP server if thats what you were doing before, I have a windows server that DCHPs IP addresses and does my local DNS), and devices connected to the RG are on their own subnet, with the RG acting as the DCHP server for that network...

There are a few other things you need to do to get it all to work...  I have to look at it again to remember what exactly I did...  Hopefully I will get this written up sometime today or tomorrow...

By the way, can you even get a static IP address (or block of addresses) from u-verse??  How much does that cost???

[picopir8]

First, regarding the static IPs, I think I read somewhere that they are not available yet, but uverse will be offering them later this year.  I cant remember the exact price (probably rumor anyway) but is seemed very reasonable.

As for me, I got hooked up yesterday.  I am presently crammed into a 2 bedroom duplex (though if my tenant moves out I might convert to a single family at a later point).  Anyway, I have a projector in the living room, and an LCD in one of the bedrooms (used as a den/computer room).  I then had them put a third hookup in the kitchen.  I will likely move the kitchen TV to the basement and run my own cable for that, but with the trend of more appliances having network adapters, I wanted the kitchen wired so putting a TV in there was the best way of getting this done for free.

Anyway, they ran the phone line to den/computer room and put the gateway in there.  The phone line comes in on one quadrent of a 4-port wall plate.  Two of the other three quadrents had cat-5 connectors and were wired to the other two rooms. So the the LAN portion of the gateway plugged into both of those.  The used wallplates everywhere and everything looks very nice.  I am very pleased with the install.

I spent the remainder of the night shuffeling the boxes around and connecting them to other devices (receiver, slingbox, etc).  Then I just wanted to sit back and play with it a bit so I did not get a chance to set up the network.  The gateway is presently plugged directly into my PC.  But I have my entire network on static DHCP (IP address assigned by MAC address).  All I need to do is enable DMZ+ on the gateway, change the base address of my router and reboot everything and I should be good to go.

[DooMer_MP3]

So what would be involved for those who live in condos/apartments? I live in a newer East Side condo that is wired for cable and phone. There is an equipment room in the parking garage in the basement. Basically all the phone/cable junction boxes are down there. I wouldn't want a bunch of wiring run through my actual condo unit. Would it be possible for them to do their business in the basement, and then have things hooked up through my existing coax or phone lines?

[TPK]

So what would be involved for those who live in condos/apartments? I live in a newer East Side condo that is wired for cable and phone. There is an equipment room in the parking garage in the basement. Basically all the phone/cable junction boxes are down there. I wouldn't want a bunch of wiring run through my actual condo unit. Would it be possible for them to do their business in the basement, and then have things hooked up through my existing coax or phone lines?

Chances are, you have (at least) 2 pairs already going to your unit from the basement (probably more, if its a newer building)...  And these 2 pairs are probably already wired to your phone jack....   A phone line only requires 1 pair, so (unless you have 2 phone lines) the second pair is not even being used...  If that is the case, they will just wire up to that second pair from the equipment room, and then put in a splitter to get that second pair out of your phone jack, and put the RG near your phone jack, and be done with it....

I highly doubt they will opt to put your RG in the basement, although in theory they could do that and just use the pre-existing coax from cable to wire up to all your boxes...   If they do it that way, you will still need a Cat-5 (networking cable) to put you on the intenet... But more importantly you (yourself) are going to need to have access to the RG to reboot it, if something goes wrong (I've had to reboot mine twice already)...   The RG will most likely have to go in your apartment somewhere... It will probably hook into an existing phone jack and then the TVs will have to be wired up to it...

So now you need to worry about the wiring to your boxes and computer from the RG...

They may use your existing coax that is already in your apartment, depending on how your apartment is wired up for cable....  Or they may run CAT-5 cabling to your rooms...   They prefer to use Cat-5 when they can...  In general, the newer the construction of your building the more easily this can be done, as newer construction tends to be more 'future' proof, with PVC conduits and such to run cabling...   Without conduit, in an apartment environment, I don't know how an installer can get the cabling through the walls, since there is usually no access to the spaces above and below your unit, unless you have a false ceiling or somesuch that will allow cabling to be run overhead and out of the way...

If need be, they can just run the cat-5 wiring along the baseboards where the carpeting and the wall meet, and maybe even push the cabling under the carpeting to hide it away....  

In any case, I would be interested in how the cabling actually works in your apartment, if you get it installed...

[DooMer_MP3]

Chances are, you have (at least) 2 pairs already going to your unit from the basement (probably more, if its a newer building)...  And these 2 pairs are probably already wired to your phone jack....   A phone line only requires 1 pair, so (unless you have 2 phone lines) the second pair is not even being used...  If that is the case, they will just wire up to that second pair from the equipment room, and then put in a splitter to get that second pair out of your phone jack, and put the RG near your phone jack, and be done with it....

I highly doubt they will opt to put your RG in the basement, although in theory they could do that and just use the pre-existing coax from cable to wire up to all your boxes...   If they do it that way, you will still need a Cat-5 (networking cable) to put you on the intenet... But more importantly you (yourself) are going to need to have access to the RG to reboot it, if something goes wrong (I've had to reboot mine twice already)...   The RG will most likely have to go in your apartment somewhere... It will probably hook into an existing phone jack and then the TVs will have to be wired up to it...

So now you need to worry about the wiring to your boxes and computer from the RG...

They may use your existing coax that is already in your apartment, depending on how your apartment is wired up for cable....  Or they may run CAT-5 cabling to your rooms...   They prefer to use Cat-5 when they can...  In general, the newer the construction of your building the more easily this can be done, as newer construction tends to be more 'future' proof, with PVC conduits and such to run cabling...   Without conduit, in an apartment environment, I don't know how an installer can get the cabling through the walls, since there is usually no access to the spaces above and below your unit, unless you have a false ceiling or somesuch that will allow cabling to be run overhead and out of the way...

If need be, they can just run the cat-5 wiring along the baseboards where the carpeting and the wall meet, and maybe even push the cabling under the carpeting to hide it away....  

In any case, I would be interested in how the cabling actually works in your apartment, if you get it installed...

Yeah, the place was finished in 2001. It definitely has 2-pairs for phone wiring. I wouldn't have an issue with having a box installed somewhere in the condo. I have my wireless router and TWC modem on a nightstand right now where a cable jack comes in, not sure how big this RG box is.

What exactly is involved in their internet setup? Does this RG box handle it all? As in, act as a modem as well as cable transmission, or whatever? Could I just link the CAT5 internet feed directly into my existing router that would be right next to the RG box?

I don't think running CAT5 would be an option with wood floors around and whatnot... not sure on the conduit. One thing I was thinking that could be done is have the RG box run into my existing coax connection in the bedroom, and then go to the little access panel in my closet downstairs and make the bedroom line the "IN" portion of the 4x1 splitter for the rest of the place, and then basically the rest of the coax outlets in the place would have the signal for the STBs?

Thanks for your input!