Pixelating/artifacting on TWC sports in HD?

[Movin2Milwaukee]

I have been looking at a Samsung Plasma (5053 or 5073) and each time I view the set in a local store, there is bad artifacting and pixelating during fast moving sports on TWC 's HD locals. I saw the pixelating on both CBS 58 sports during NFL on Sunday and for the Baseball Playoffs on FOX 6 tonight.

Is this normal for TWC's channels? I thought TWC was supposed to be less compressed than, say, Directv? If this is abnormal, it might be an issue with the Samsung Plasma and that will affect my decision whether or not to purchase this set.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[VoidXero]

I have TWC and I see a lot of pixellation during sports programming on NBC and CBS. ABC, FOX and ESPN are nowhere near as bad (still a little high motion pixellation). I'm starting to think that 1080i isn't cut out for sports when using typical broadcast bitrates. Of course, sports on inHD and HDNET have less pixellation than CBS/NBC so that may not be the case.

Short answer: I don't think TWC is to blame, at least not completely.

[Movin2Milwaukee]

I have TWC and I see a lot of pixellation during sports programming on NBC and CBS. ABC, FOX and ESPN are nowhere near as bad (still a little high motion pixellation). I'm starting to think that 1080i isn't cut out for sports when using typical broadcast bitrates. Of course, sports on inHD and HDNET have less pixellation than CBS/NBC so that may not be the case.

Short answer: I don't think TWC is to blame, at least not completely.

So then the fault is with my tv or the networks? Perhaps a bit of both?

[flash]

I get pixelation on TWC high def shows also.
It even happened during the Monday night Packers game several times.

While watching the game the people in the stands in the background appeared to flicker on the TV. My wife walked into the room and said "That's really annoying! "
For her to notice..... says a lot.  

[Mark Strube]

I have TWC and I see a lot of pixellation during sports programming on NBC and CBS.

Those are 1080i (interlaced is more problematic for high motion video such as sports), and both have subchannels (NBC has Weather Plus, CBS has WMLW) which are stealing from their full bitrate.

ABC, FOX and ESPN are nowhere near as bad (still a little high motion pixellation).

Those are 720p channels (720p is better for sports, less artifacting which would be caused by high motion interlacing), and all of those are at the full bitrate intended by the networks since there's no multicast channels.

I'm starting to think that 1080i isn't cut out for sports when using typical broadcast bitrates. Of course, sports on inHD and HDNET have less pixellation than CBS/NBC so that may not be the case.

While inHD and HDNet are 1080i, they're at their full intended bitrates... vastly improving high motion quality.
There's nothing wrong with your televisions - the problem lies with the station owners' greed.

[techboy]

It's not only about the mpeg video bit rate.  The highest video bit rate in Milwaukee OTA ( Over the Air ) is WVTV 18/61 which allocates the maximum 17.9 Mbps to their 1080i video.  The remainder of their stream is 448Khz DD audio and the necessary discripter data required for ASTC 8VSB tranmission.   But it's really the 60 frames per second in 720p which makes sports motion look so good.  Not only is 1080i interlaced, it's only 30 fps.  Squeezing digital video into only 6Mhz channels is the real problem.  Had the FCC allowed for 10 Mhz UHF channels, we might have also gotten a 1080p OTA.    Back in 1950, when CBS proposed the first analog HD television system, they requested 30 Mhz channels in the UHF TV band.   Of course, that never happened.  There would not have been enough spectrum to accomodate more than a few channels per market.

[Mark Strube]

Of course progressive helps a lot, but the observations above completely coincide with the 1080i channels that happen to have lower bitrate VS the cable channels (HDNet, inHD) with full bitrate.

[ddysart]

So to summarize, is it the content, the carrier or the display?  I'm reading "it's the content" from these posts.

I ask as I'm considering the same display and possibly the same carrier.

[techboy]

It's all of them.  Content... Fast motion = pixelation.  Carrier.... Some compress signals more than others:  More compression = Pixelation.   Display... Fast refresh / artifically high contrast displays ( plasma ) emphasis the bad qualities of what is at best a mediorcre HDTV transmission system.  If you are loooking for closer to perfect, you'll have to wait for the 1080p material on HD DVD.  CRT's hide pixelation best due to long phorspor persistance.  Next LCD's due to slow response time of crystal elements.  IMHO plasma displays highlight the worst qualities often found in broadcast HDTV.  Like in the song: That's just the way it is.

[Den Mayer]

About 2 weeks ago I had bad Pixelization on most all TW HD stations

except for ESPN-HD......   just after a 2 day rain......

The 1st TW 'home' Tech was out the next day and found the feed line

 was 'hot' or High screen reading +17db on most TW HD Channels....

 I asked for/got a GOOD Tech who is a Systems man....     The next day a 17

 Year Veteran showed up, saw the HD TV problem, & viewed the screen

  readouts....    My line was 'HOT', but he says I think I can fix it.....

  To make the story short.....    In 1 hour & 3 visits later, the TW Pixelization

  was fixed.      The Tech had to go back 4 LEs (Line Extending Amps) and

  tone down the Signal.    He mentioned the AGC (auto Gain Control) held

  as he adjusted the down stream amp signals. My HD set now reads -1db

 for most TW HD Cable channels now...        The rain had little to do

 with my problem...   and No one in the Neighborhood complained but me.

[Mark Strube]

You're talking about the picture "breaking up" while we're talking about "pixelization" which has nothing to do with signal levels.

[Movin2Milwaukee]

Thanks one and all for the informative responses.

This may be slightly off-topic but the new Sony SXRD XBR2's have a 2.5 ms response time. As I am also a big videogamer, will something like that help with game lag? I am also considering DLP and PLASMA...but want the set that will avoid serious lag during XBOX 360 and the upcoming PS3.