8300 HD DVR - HDMI Not working

[TPK]

I have had an 8300 HD DVR box since they first came out last year...  I really like the box, and the monthly price is reasonable (its probably the only thing that keeps me with TWC)..

Anyhow, about a month ago I started to have some real strange problems with it (I can expand on the problems I was having with the old  box if you would like me to), so I figured since the TWC center on north and 3rd is on my way to work (sort-of), I figured that I would trade in the old box for another one...

Originally I had that box hooked up with component because at the time you couldnt get dolby digital out and use HDMI at the same time, but when I read here that that had changed, I switched over to HDMI and I got Dolby digital at the same time (thru my reciever) so I was happy (mainly becauase I freed up the component port)..

Anyhow, I put in this new box (yes, the new box actually has the 'audio digital out' menu option in the 'more settings', the old box did not) and I tried to  hook it up the same way (with HDMI) and I got no picture, and no sound....  

I  switched to component (having to unhook my xbox) and it did work (but I had to actualyl un-hook the HDMI cable first to get the component output to show up or even to get any audio out of the box to my receiver)...

I tried reseting the box, making sure the television was always on, but that didnt seem to work..    I tried monkying around with the digital audio out settings, but I still couldnt get the HDMI to work...

In order for the box to output anything at all, I have to un-hook the HDMI cable from the back of the box...

So my question is, is this normal??  I had it working before on my old box, why wouldnt a newer box work??  Should I trade in the box again??  Has anyone else had problems like this?

.. Appreciate you input, and thank you..

TPK

[tekdredger]

Do you get that annoying message that your TV is not compatible and you should use the component connection instead or do you get nothing at all?

[Mark Strube]

If you're getting no picture at all, I'd trade it for another box. If you're still getting the same issue with a new box, check the HDMI cable.

[gparris]

Maybe you have not had a chance to look through our forum for 8300HD tips, but your audio problem with HDMI is what everyone has as the box does not do DD5.1 throughput...okay?  
Maybe I don't understand your problem with this cable box.
NOTE #1:
It is a known fact and every set up I have and have done means two cablings, one for the digital audio out from the box to the A/V receiver and the other for the video with HDMI directly to the HDTV set, instead of the three component video cables....your choice here.
NOTE #2:
Your HDMI cable is installed with everything off first .... just to be safe.
Then once connected, leave the 8300HD DVR box off but plugged in.
Then turn your HDTV set on-only.
Then the 8300HD DVR looks for the HDCP "handshake" and turns itself on and you have a picture...that is all you ever do.
Once you are done, you turn everything off, including the cable box to begin again once you are ready to watch TV.
Question: ARE you doing this?
I have a Sony HDTV and Hitachi HDTV both with HDMI from the 8300HD DVR and have hooked up many sets with this setup, no problems.
It is difficult for me to find this problem with your setup, that's all.

[TPK]

Hello there, thanx for the replys..

Ya, I am doing all that with the HDMI and trying to turn on the TV first, etc...  It doesn't work...

I have the coaxial digital audio output going to my coaxial digital audio input on my receiver...

No, I am not getting the 'your TV is not HDCP capable' message...  Instead I get nothing (no audio, no video)...  If I pull the HDMI cable out, then the video and audo starts to work..

I will try to exchange for another box... I just hope that TWC wont force an installer to come out here just to hook up my box (I guess they do that after 2 or 3 times you try to install yourself)...

I know that this should work because I had it working before the same way.. I just thought that maybe with a newer box I am missing a setting or not flipping the right switch or someting

I will switch for a new box tomorrow and see how it goes

OR who knows, maybe I've blown out the HDMI port on my television (oh please no, anything but that!!)

[tekdredger]

This might seem too obvious but the TV also has to have the HDMI port selected, not just turned on, for the HDCP handshake to take place.  If the 8300 doesn't get a handshake it disables all the outputs like you are experiencing.

[TPK]

Hello there...

Well, I switched out the DVR box, and I still have the same issues...

My guess is that they must have changed versions of the box, and the new version is either having problems with HDMI in general or perhaps for some reason the new boxes are incompatible with my television (I have a Samsung 5063W DLP TV)...

During most of my testing, I had the TV turned on and HDMI selected.. . With some of my testing I had the TV off first and then tried to turn the cable box on first...

I know its not the cable.. The cable was working fine with the original 8300 HD that I turned in...  I suppose I could go out and buy a new HDMI cable and see if that works (I only have 1 HDMI cable), but I think that would be pretty much pointless and wasted money..

The box freaks out when I plug in the HDMI cable...  The power icon on the front panel blinks on and off rapidly, and I can hear the hard drive in there seeking around furiously....   When I un-plug the HDMI cable, everything is fine..  Plug the HDMI cable back in, and the cable box continues to work for about 20 seconds (I can hear the sound, but no picture) then 20 seconds later it starts freaking out again and I loose the sound...  

One time, I plugged in the HDMI cable while the box was already on and I actually got a picture on my television...  But then 20 seconds later it went to a blank screen and the cable box started freaking out again..   I tried to reproduce this, but I was unable to...  But for a few seconds there, I actually did have a picture on the screen..

All I can say is that something is wrong with TWCs newer equipment..

Is it possible that TWC sends out firmware updates for these boxes periodically, and maybe I need to wait a few days before attempting to use the HDMI??

Another thing that has crossed my mind is that about a year ago I went through several HD (non-DVR) cable boxes, where one after the other was bad and had the same problems..   I kept swapping them at the TWC office on 3rd and North avenue downtown..  But it wasn't until I switched out the box at the Mayfair location that I actually got a fully working box..  Is it possible that the TWC location in Milwaukee gets different equipment than the TWC location at Mayfair? (I have no idea how TWC works internally when it comes to equipment replacement)...  Or perhaps that was a coincidence??   I suppose I could go out to Mayfair to do the box swap if I had a reason to believe this was actually the case instead of a coincidence, but its quite a drive for me and I would rather not do that unless I knew it would help...

Anyhow, I guess its back to analog connections and the 'ole manual component switch-box for me

... oh well

[gparris]

Just a thought...are you connecting both component AND HDMI cabling from the 8300HD DVR box?
The instructions state only one connection type??? :eek:

This what I have read from the SA site "Explorer Club".

You see, I tried that with one of my 3 HD DVR boxes and it behaved just like yours has...just a question!

[TPK]

This might seem too obvious but the TV also has to have the HDMI port selected, not just turned on, for the HDCP handshake to take place.  If the 8300 doesn't get a handshake it disables all the outputs like you are experiencing.

I was thinking that if no one else is having these problems then its probably some sort of compatibility issue with the newer boxes and my television...  Perhaps the older boxes (I got one of the first 8300 HD DVR boxes that were available originally) didn't require something in the handshake that the newer boxes do..

I have a Samsung HLP 5063W DLP projection TV...

Is it possible that I may be able to update this television (perhaps with some sort of firmware update or something)?   Perhaps that might fix the problem??  If I remember correctly, I did see some sort of a serial port inside a panel area in the television, I imagine that is used for firmware updates..

By the way, I can now reproduce having the HDMI work, although its not really a permanent solution...

If I watch TV normally for an hour or so with the component cable connection (HDMI unplugged from the box), I can then turn the TV to the HDMI port (TV says 'check cable' or something like that)..  Then I hot-plug the HDMI cable into the box and presto!,  I get a picture on the TV vai the HDMI port...

Now one time I did this and I was able to watch TV for about 10 minutes...  Then I changed the channel, and for the first few channnels it worked fine, but then when it switched from a 1080i to a 720p channel the box stopped working...

I tried to do it again right away and it didnt work..  But after about an hour of watching TV normally with  the component cables I tried it again and it worked again...  

This time instead of switching channels I tried to turn the system off (TV and cable box) and back on again, and it went back to not working, so I switched back to component...

I guess I really do need to turn my TV off from time to time (I also need to switch channels), so I guess I really cannot leave it set up like that...  But at least I am able to reproduce the HDMI actually working , albiet just temporarily....

[tekdredger]

Since the TV is not displaying the HDCP compatibility message I think the cable box is not at fault.  I suspect your 8300 is sending a resolution that the TV doesn't recognize, therefore the black screen.  Try restricting the output resolutions that the STB is passing.  Start with 720p only since that is the native resolution of the DLP.  If that doesn't work try 1080i only and repeat until you narrow this down.

Btw, I looked through the manual for the Samsung and I did not find one reference to HDCP compatibility.  That's not to say it isn't, it just isn't explained one way or the other.

Good Luck

I'm also curious what version of the Passport software your 8300 is using.  You need to enter diagnostic mode to read that out.

[TPK]

Since the TV is not displaying the HDCP compatibility message I think the cable box is not at fault.  I suspect your 8300 is sending a resolution that the TV doesn't recognize, therefore the black screen.  Try restricting the output resolutions that the STB is passing.  Start with 720p only since that is the native resolution of the DLP.  If that doesn't work try 1080i only and repeat until you narrow this down.

Btw, I looked through the manual for the Samsung and I did not find one reference to HDCP compatibility.  That's not to say it isn't, it just isn't explained one way or the other.

Good Luck

I'm also curious what version of the Passport software your 8300 is using.  You need to enter diagnostic mode to read that out.

Yep yep, Ive tried that (although I think I only tried it with setting it to 720p and not 1080i)....

Could it be that earlier versions of the 8300 did not require HDCP??

I would like to tell you what version of the passport I am using...  How do I enter diagnostic mode?

[TPK]

Well, I got it working...

All I did was monkey around with the settings a bit more (I set it to only output 1080i and 720p) and then I hot-plugged in the HDMI after watching the box/tv on component for a while and I got the picture up with the HDMI...  Then I switched channels and the thing kept working...

After watching TV on the HDMI for a few hours, switching around to the various components, turning the system off for a while and back on again (with some newer un-related problems, see below), I am satisfied that the HDMI interface is working..

I thought maybe with all the monkeying around back there that perhaps it may have been a frayed or otherwise intermittently damaged HDMI cable which was now in correct alignment, but I am almost positive that is not the case becuase I jiggled the cable around quite a bit in an attempt to break it and it kept working...

I have no idea what I am doing differently...   Perhaps the TV and the Box 'learned' about each other and now all is well...   Perhaps its just good luck...  Perhaps tomorrow the thing wont work again, who knows...

I have noticed a few things about the newer box though..

1) When switching between 1080i and 720p channels the switchover goes a LOT quicker than it used to (yes, the box is actually outputting both 720p and 1080i..  I can tell thats the case when I hit the 'info' button for my TV)...  I used to have to force the output to 720p (My DLP is a 720 natively) just so it wouldnt have to make the switch (which used to take upwards of a half-minute before the picture would stablize)..  Anyhow, now it goes fast enough (perhaps 3 seconds of blank screen before it switches over) that I am comfortable setting the box to output 1080i as well as 720p..  I used to blame the long switchover on my TV, but clearly the box had something to do with it because this box works better..  I am happy about this because my TV does a MUCH better job of de-interlacing than the cable box does with the 1080i...  You can actually see flickering around the edges of the network logos when I have the box forcing 720p out on a 1080i channel..  Not a big big deal, but definitely noticable..

2) The box turns on by itself when the TV turns on from the off state...    This, however, is causing me a new problem with the harmony remote (see below)..

3)  I now have the audio output menu (it is set to dolby digital output)

4) The box has FireWire on the back (I dont think the other one did, but now I cannot remember, but this one does for sure)..

5) The box will not output component and HDMI at the same time...  At one point I was testing a Samsung plasma TV (not mine) and I had the component hooked up to the plasma and the HDMI hooked up to my DLP at the same time and I was able to compare both screens with the same picture at the same time (wow, you should have seen it!)..  I guess those days of side-by-side comparisons are over ;(

Anyhow, I do have a small problem though...

My problem is that the harmony wants to power the cable box on when I bring my system from the off state to watching cable, but instead it turns the cable box off...

What happens is the harmony turns the television on first, and then the box turns on automatically (becuase it senses the HDMI being active on the TV on powerup I guess), then the harmony goes and tries to turn the cable box on, but the cable box is now already on, and so, of course, it turns off instead....

So whenever I go to watching cable from the off state I have to use the help function and tell it that my cable box is not on..  Going to watch cable from any other state (DVD, Xbox, etc.), however, works fine since the TV is already on, and therefore the harmony correctly assumes that the cable box is off and so it powers it on correctly...

Not a very big deal, just a minor annoyance which I imagine will become a big major annoyance if I have to show other people how to use my system, which I do all the time..  This was why I got the harmony remote in the first place, to make that fool proof...  I used to say 'just hit watch cable', now I gotta say 'just hit watch cable, and hit the help, and hit no, no, no, yes, yes)...

Anyhow, anyone have any ideas how to solve this one??  Perhaps if there is a way to set the order in which the harmony turns on devices (always turn on the TV after the cable box, for example),  but as far as I can tell the harmony set up site doesnt have a way to do this (unless I am missing something)...

Anyhow, I guess I should count my blessings, I am just happy that I no longer have to use component..   To tell you the truth, I really dont notice the difference between component and HDMI..  However I like using the HDMI for cable because that frees up the component port for my X-box..

Also, I would still like to access the diagnostic menu in the box (if someone could tell me how to do that) just to see whats there and see what version I am using (I guess I am just curious that way)...

Oh, and thank you all for your suggestions and help....

[tekdredger]

To enter diagnostic mode:  Simultaneously press and hold SELECT and EXIT on the front panel, not the remote, for about 4 seconds until you hear a "ding", then release.  The display will briefly show "diag".  Press exit again and your box will tune to channel 611 where a wealth of information is displayed.  Use the navigation keys on the remote to scroll down the left hand contents column to view each page.  The Passport Echo version is on the first VERSIONS page. (Mine is at 1.8.103)

Glad to hear you're up and running.  The past experience you related about slow negotiation of different resolutions helps to affirm my suspicions that it is the Samsung causing the problems.  You might want to check with the manufacturer about any firmware updates.  HDMI and HDCP are a bit of a moving target these days.  

The HDMI is vastly superior on my projector, much more detail and more accurate colors.

[TPK]

To enter diagnostic mode:  Simultaneously press and hold SELECT and EXIT on the front panel, not the remote, for about 4 seconds until you hear a "ding", then release.  The display will briefly show "diag".  Press exit again and your box will tune to channel 611 where a wealth of information is displayed.  Use the navigation keys on the remote to scroll down the left hand contents column to view each page.  The Passport Echo version is on the first VERSIONS page. (Mine is at 1.8.103)

Glad to hear you're up and running.  The past experience you related about slow negotiation of different resolutions helps to affirm my suspicions that it is the Samsung causing the problems.  You might want to check with the manufacturer about any firmware updates.  HDMI and HDCP are a bit of a moving target these days.  

The HDMI is vastly superior on my projector, much more detail and more accurate colors.

Slick diagnostic menu...

My Versions (first) page reads:

ResApp Version: PASSPORT Echo 1.8.111
OS Version: PowerTV 6.14.43.3sp
Driver Version: 1
ResAppDate: Jul 29 2005, 06:08:50
OS Date: Jul 6 2005, 5:21:20 PM

etc.. etc...

So it looks like mine may be a bit newer?

By the way, I sorta kinda solved the problem with the cable box turning on and off by calling harmony tech support, and they modified my device (with an internal menu that I dont have access to) to change it so the TV power command is delayed...  This had the affect of fixing the power on problem but it screwed up just about everything else...  So I went back to the drawing board and made a whole new harmony remote profile for myself and set everything back up (since I didnt want to go through tech support again and I didnt have a way to undo the modification with the front end)...

So I just put a 'cable box power' custom button on the watch cable activity and I will deal with the box turning itself off by using that button after power up, and I will deal with it that way I guess....

Im my searching on the net I see that some people just opt to have the cable box remain on all the time, but then this causes problems with the box receiving updates (I guess because it cant receive updates when its on), so then they use the built in sleep timer functions to turn the box off and on at certain hours (yuck)...

The wierd thing is that the box powers itself on when the TV goes on, but then wont power off when the TV goes off...

IF only there was a way to tell the cable box not to be so 'helpful' and not turn on automatically just because it senses that the TV has turned on through the  HDMI cable....  I can see how some people may want this, but for those of us with universal remote controls and macros and harmony remotes, this is not a very desirable feature...   I think a menu option for this is in order...