6.1 surround

[FeedingFrenzy]

My current set-up has reciever that is capable of 6.1 but my speakers total 6 (woofer, center, fronts and rears).  Was looking at adding a ceiling mounted back surround.  Just wanted to get some opinions on if it is worth it and if so a speaker recommendation.  Would like to stay under $100 if possible.  Thx

[oz]

The few times I've heard it - I haven't noticed much difference. But what's an extra $100?  You can't put a price on cool/nerdy.

[gparris]

Your receiver has a Neo:6 setting for surround processing the back surround speaker which is good and I use it with my Boston Bravos mounted behind my seating position with great surround sound.
Since you do not indicate what the size of your room is, where the walls are in relation to your speakers, etc., so it is hard to gauge what you might need.
A single speaker, not found in pairs, could be easy to find, though I would try using the same manufacturer as the one you have for the other speakers, though pricey.
If an in-ceiling (flush mount) speaker is possible, try the Polk 100W model sold at many stores and you can aim its internals toward the seating areas to focus the back surround signal.
In any event, you will be ready for the smoother, less isolated 5.1 effects with one in the back making it 6.1.
 Remember DTS-ES has a discrete 6.1 channel with some DVDs and even the Dolby EX matrixed 6.1 is excellent on others, too.

[tekdredger]

I haven't tried either 6.1 or 7.1 but in some discussions in a different forum I was strongly cautioned about mounting any rear surround speakers overhead (in ceiling).  The timbre of sounds coming from overhead is considerably different than from behind us.  This difference can spoil the psychoacoustics of the surround environment.  Discrete 6.1/7.1 soundtracks are mixed and encoded with the intention for the sound to be coming from behind the listener.  That said, I guess if the ceiling speaker is far enough behind your listening position it might still be ok.  If the speaker you employ is aimable I would be tempted to aim it at the back wall, not directly at the listening position.  In any event, I would definitely experiment with the positioning before cutting any holes in the ceiling.  Nothing would be worse than having a speaker mounted in the ceiling that just doesn't sound right, it could end up being worse than nothing at all.

Please keep us updated as the project progresses.  A more detailed description of your current speaker set-up and the room itself might be helpful as well.

[picopir8]

6.1 does fill the room a bit better and that alone is probably worth getting the extra speaker.  However, dont expect to be able to localize sounds out of the 6th speaker.  Its more for fill than anything else.

Going to 7.1 though does create some noticable differences.  With 7.1, the effects speakers are on the sides of your room and the  6th and 7th speakers are on the rear corners.  This really enhances the surround effect, IMO.  However, the two rear channels are matrixed.

Hopefully someone will correct me if Im wrong, but I dont think anything natively supports 7.1 and there are very few 6.1 DVDs.  So if you go with either 6.1 or 7.1, most of your titles will be processed to make them 6.1 or 7.1.  Therefore the quality of your receiver will determine the quality of your 6.1 or 7.1 experience.

[picopir8]

tekdredger: I haven't tried either 6.1 or 7.1 but in some discussions in a different forum I was strongly cautioned about mounting any rear surround speakers overhead (in ceiling).  The timbre of sounds coming from overhead is considerably different than from behind us.  This difference can spoil the psychoacoustics of the surround environment.

Good point.  However, most quality receivers require you to specify the position of the speakers.  That is, you tell how far away they as well as their height.  The receiver will then process the signal and correct for speaker placement.  Another factor is the type of rear/effects speaker that you have.  Speakers that have multiple cones that point in different directions dont have as many problems as single cone speakers because the sound is indirect (reflected) vs direct.  Angling a speaker down then reflecting the sound off a wall before can make it sound like the source is lower than it actually is.

[tekdredger]

picopir8: ...However, most quality receivers require you to specify the position of the speakers.  That is, you tell how far away they as well as their height.  The receiver will then process the signal and correct for speaker placement.

Most??? I can't say I've ever seen a setting for speaker height on a receiver.  I do remember a few years back Yamaha had an extra set of "height" effects channels but that was a proprietary processing algorithm.  The extra speakers were actually mounted on the front wall.  Back to topic, the speaker distance setting in the receiver only affects the delay for each channel, it does not "process" the signal to correct for timbral differences based on location.

[picopir8]

I probably should not have said most, but I do recall seeing it in several high end receivers.  Though a lot of recieivers do allow you to specify speaker delay.  That can help but its a PITA to properly calibrate a HT setup using those settings.  On the bright side, a number of recievers now have auto calibration (place a mic in the sweet spot and start the calibration).  However, I still have my doubts about such features because they dont know where you speakers are positioned or how they are angled.  Placing a speaker too high or at a strange angle could still create adverse affects.  But for 90% of the population, I think it would help.  Hell I calibrate most of my friends receivers (using a simple sound meter) because most people think HT receivers are plug and play.  Most people dont even program speaker type (large/small) and distance.

[murdoc]

Most??? I can't say I've ever seen a setting for speaker height on a receiver.  I do remember a few years back Yamaha had an extra set of "height" effects channels but that was a proprietary processing algorithm.  The extra speakers were actually mounted on the front wall.  Back to topic, the speaker distance setting in the receiver only affects the delay for each channel, it does not "process" the signal to correct for timbral differences based on location.

My Sony that I bought over 5 years ago has settings for speaker size, placement, and delay.  I'm starting to think this reciever was ahead of it's time, with these settings and 3 optical inputs.  I'm not sure if new recievers have these settings, but I always look at the number of optical inputs, and most have 1 or 2 max.

[FeedingFrenzy]

My viewing area is roughly 12' x 12.'  Center is on top of TV, fronts are off to the side of the TV mounted on wall.  Rear surrounds near top of ceiling angled down and in towards middle of viewing area.  Nothing behind back of couch for about 14' until you hit wall/stairs.  Ceiling is a drop ceiling so I have options with locations.

[gparris]

You mention a drop ceiling - so that means you can run speaker wire from your receiver to the back inside the ceiling grid-probably like what you did for your side surrounds.
My basement Gym/Rec room has Klipsch in-ceiling surrounds installed into the drop ceiling to match the front floor standing speakers and the back surround is awesome.
I would recommend doing a single in-ceiling speaker mounted equidistant between the two side surrounds in alignment with what you have already mounted from the ceiling for side surrounds into that drop ceiling.
Read the instructions for mounting - it is very easy - and aim the internals of the speaker towards your sitting area from the back about two feet or so from the back of the middle of the couch. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

[HDefinicktion]

I too have a dropped ceiling, and mounted a 6th & 7th channel to the rear.  I looked around for the best solution for awile.  What worked out to be the best, and most affordable for the quality was to add two Bose 161 speakers.  They worked out well for the dropped ceiling because they can be mounted on the ceiling and pivoted to enhance audio to the area you want it.  The nice thing about this was that I bought them from the Bose store in Johnson Creek for around $125.  I never really expected them to add a lot to the overall sound of the system, but they do fill out the rear end nicely, even for programs not coming in Dolby.  If you would like to see a picture, I would be more than willing.

[gparris]

My viewing area is roughly 12' x 12.'  Center is on top of TV, fronts are off to the side of the TV mounted on wall.  Rear surrounds near top of ceiling angled down and in towards middle of viewing area.  Nothing behind back of couch for about 14' until you hit wall/stairs.  Ceiling is a drop ceiling so I have options with locations.

Let us know how it goes and what you have decided to do....thanks.

[FeedingFrenzy]

Probably will do something around x-mas as it's not that high priority in the household.  X-mas less than 3 months :eek: .  Right now trying to talk the wife into a convertible mustang which has been unsucessful, any pointers?  I have company car and her van is payed off. Watta perfect time to make a poor investment that's alot of fun .  Of course I could just show up in the driveway with it.

[Gregg Lengling]

Probably will do something around x-mas as it's not that high priority in the household.  X-mas less than 3 months :eek: .  Right now trying to talk the wife into a convertible mustang which has been unsucessful, any pointers?  I have company car and her van is payed off. Watta perfect time to make a poor investment that's alot of fun .  Of course I could just show up in the driveway with it.

Best time of the year to buy a convertable...just bought the wife a 2004 Sebring Convertable...had 2 identical cars with the same mileage on 2 different Chrysler lots, got them into a bidding war.....got a 1-1/2 year old car with 16k miles for under $15,000.00, a new one even with employee pricing was 28plus and that wasn't even the touring model which my wife now has with all the options.