TWC Pioneer cable box problems

[TPK]

Okay, I have TWC with a Pioneer Voyager HD set top box (not sure of the exact model number) and my new HDTV is a Samsung 50-inch DLP projection...

Anyhow, I switched my Sientific Atlanta out for the Pioneer (at the TWC office on North and MLK/3rd) because the Pioneer seems a bit newer, with more output options (a second set of analog audio outputs, and DVI).....  Also, the Pioneer box is capable of outputting a 720p as well as a 1080i HD signal, and it seems to keep the channels in their native format, as it sends it to the TV....

Anyhow, I switched the settings on the cable box to tell it that I had a widescreen TV, and that my TV was capable of displaying all formats (480p, 480i, 1080i, 720p)...  

I did this because I figured that I trusted my television to up/down convert to suit its needs (this TV has a 720 native resolution) more than I trusted the cable box....  I guess I would rather let the TV figure out what to do with the signal, and let the cable box output the signal in its native format, than to have the cable box do the up/down converting, and have the TV re-convert it into the format it needs....  

So, my first question is, is this the right and correct approach to take???  Or would I be better served if I just tell my cable box to output everything to 720p or what???  What should I do if I have a DLP TV with a 720 native resoution?? How should I set up my cable box??

Now, that said, I found that there is a big problem with this cable box when it outputs to 720p....  What happens is, if I am tuned to a 720p channel (ESPN, FOX, WISN) and the box is outputing to 720p (I can tell what kind of signal is being sent to the TV by hitting the 'info' button on my TV remote), the whole cable box either freezes up outputting purple bars vertically on 1/2 of the screen, or it reboots itself...  To make things worse, the only way I could get it out of its freeze-up was to go to the box and unplug the power cable, and plug it back in and let it reboot...  (of course, rebooting this box takes like 2 or 3 minutes)

At first I thought this was my TV doing this, but soon I realized it was the cable box, and this would only happen when I was tuned to a 720p channel and went to the program guide....    On any other channel but those three, if I go to the program guide, everything is fine (albiet quite a bit slower on the 1080i channels)...

So, I figured that I had a deffective cable box... So I went and traded it in at the TWC office again, and when I hooked up the new box I found that the exact same thing was happening again...  So now I figure it wasn't a deffective box, but instead a problem with this model of cable box with its current firmware....

So now,  I am inclined to not let my cable box output to 720p, and force it to output to 1080i by un-checking the 720p output format in its advanced setup menu....  Doing this seems to make this problem go away, but it just kills me that my TV is capable of receiving and displaying a 720p signal, and I have to feed it a 1080i signal just so I dont have this problem when I go to the program guide on those three channels....

Does anyone else have this problem?? Or is it just me??? Should I keep trading in my Pioneer cable box until the problem goes away???  Is there some sort of firmware upgrade I can get for this box???    Should I try to go to another TWC office to do my next box trade-in?? (Perhaps the one in Grafton, Im not that far away from Grafton...)   Or should I just force the box to output to 1080i because it really doesn't matter what format I send to my TV?

[George99]

First let me say that I too have a 720p native HD set (Aquos LCD TV) and I do not have a problem ( as you described it) with having the Pio box output 720p format. In fact I set it up as you describe with all valid formats checked and let my HD TV do the conversion to 720p.  Seems to work best except for SD where I use s-video which is far better than 480i out of cable box.

IMHO it would seem rare to me that you could have two Pio boxes with same problem.  I suppose you could try a third box to see if problem persists. I'm wondering too what type of cables you're using... component, DVI, or ? But don't see off hand how that would make a difference...

[summerfun]

I have found it best to just set the STB to output 1080i only. If you pick more than one, your TV set will always flicker when you change channels with different settings.

[TPK]

First let me say that I too have a 720p native HD set (Aquos LCD TV) and I do not have a problem ( as you described it) with having the Pio box output 720p format. In fact I set it up as you describe with all valid formats checked and let my HD TV do the conversion to 720p.  Seems to work best except for SD where I use s-video which is far better than 480i out of cable box.

IMHO it would seem rare to me that you could have two Pio boxes with same problem.  I suppose you could try a third box to see if problem persists. I'm wondering too what type of cables you're using... component, DVI, or ? But don't see off hand how that would make a difference...

... Interesting that your pioneer box doesnt exhibit this problem...   I think what I will do is trade in my  box again at a different location (either the office in Grafton or maybe I'll go out to their showroom in tosa)....

I tried both DVI and Component outputs (TV supports Component, DVI, and HDMI..  Box has Component and DVI outputs, no HDMI), and same thing happened either way...

I think the picture actually looks noticibly better using the component rather than the DVI, so I will stick with component for now (perhaps I am crazy??)

.....  If the cable box converts the picture to 1080i, then wouldn't I be missing the benefits of 720p?  (like fewer motion artifacts, etc...)...

I guess it doesn't matter that much, picture still looks good with HD no matter what....  If I can't get this problem fixed, than chances are I will just set it to output to 1080i all the time, and then occasionally switch the box to output to 720p on those rare ocasaions I am watching something sports related on a channel that outputs to 720p....

[George99]

I would be very surprised if the third box has the same problem. But they may not let you exchange it yourself.  TWC has told me in past that they only allow up to two exchanges yourself and then you must have a TWC person install it.  Don't know if that's company policy but I guess you can try for another exchange and see what they say.

As far as conversions are concerned I feel the less the better.  If original material is in 720p, why have Pio box convert it to 1080i only to have your set convert it back to 720p?? But on the practical side you may not notice the difference...  One thing for sure is the Pio box component output for SD is not nearly as good as the SD from Pio s-video connector.  Component SD is too soft and not sharp IMHO.

Please let us know how it works out.

[TPK]

As an update, a technician from TWC was just out here (to fix my roadrunner), and while he was here I showed him the 720p problem with my pioneer cable box and he swapped out my box...

... On the new box, same thing, the box freezes up when going to the guide on a 720p channel

... The technician told me that they are supposed to set up the boxes to output to 1080i only, and to disable the 720p....   I told him that was silly, and he agreed....

[aaron31182]

As an update, a technician from TWC was just out here (to fix my roadrunner), and while he was here I showed him the 720p problem with my pioneer cable box and he swapped out my box...

... On the new box, same thing, the box freezes up when going to the guide on a 720p channel

... The technician told me that they are supposed to set up the boxes to output to 1080i only, and to disable the 720p....   I told him that was silly, and he agreed....

This leads me to believe that the problem is software related and swapping the box out wont fix it. I know samsung and pioneer had a problem with each other when this cable box first came out. They wouldn't work with each other but I thought it was only through dvi. Maybe it's also through component outputs? Maybe switching back to the older Sci. Atlantic box would be best? Good luck!

[TPK]

This leads me to believe that the problem is software related and swapping the box out wont fix it. I know samsung and pioneer had a problem with each other when this cable box first came out. They wouldn't work with each other but I thought it was only through dvi. Maybe it's also through component outputs? Maybe switching back to the older Sci. Atlantic box would be best? Good luck!

Ya, this is  probably a firmware problem with the pioneer set top box...

I highly doubt it can be related to some incompatibility issue between the pio box and the television,  especially since I am using the component outputs.....

The old Scientific Atlantic box only outputs to 1080i.....

I can set up the pioneer box to output only to 1080i (like how the technicians are supposed to set it up), and the problem goes away...  Of course this means that a 720p channel (like ESPN HD) is converted to 1080i in the box, and then re-converted back to 720p within the television set for its 720 microdisplay, which means that Im probably back down to 30 frames-per-second in 720, which is sorta silly, and kinda defeats the purpose of having a 720p native television....  But oh well, no biggie I guess.....

... I can't wait for someone to invent a HD cable tuner card for a PC with a built-in cable card slot... Then I can build my own HD-PVR with Freevo or MythTV or something and be done with all of this mess....  Of course that would be asking too much wouldnt it ...  

... Anyhow, I digress.....

[George99]

Sorry to hear that your third box won't work for you. My Pioneer 3510HD does not have that problem as I said in previous post and others here have not had the problem either.  My box passes through the original material, be it 480p, 720p or 1080i (I have disabled 480i in Pio box settings).  I know this since my set displays the HD mode when I select a new station. For example Fox6 is usually 720p and DiscoveryHD is 1080i.

One other thought.  A friend of mine had a problem, supposedly with Pioneer box, but it was not a  box problem at all. It refused to display program guide on certain channels. Problem persisted after swapping out box twice. Then noticed that some programming that was supposedly paid for was not showing up on some channels. A call to TWC service and some long conversations concluded that the subscription info was wrong in TWC computer.  After the subscription info was fixed and TWC sent some kind of signal to box all was fine after a reboot.  Everyone, including the techs, thought it was a bad box originally.

[mhz40]

My Sammy works fine at 720p as well (feeding w/component).  Are you using component or DVI?  Make sure you only have 720p selected in the settings...  Don't give up just yet... the Pioneer is a more 'user friendly' set top.

[mhz40]

Are you using DVI?  My Sammy works great with the Pioneer and a component feed.

[TPK]

Currently I am using the component outputs....

But I have tried DVI, and I had the same problem, with the same purple (and white) vertical bars and the box freezing, when using either DVI or component....

Is there a way to find the firmware version of the cable box???

[mhz40]

Very very strange.  I'll try to get some time this week to dig around at work for an answer for you...  Meanwhile, can you find out hat happens if you only check 720p and then try to select 'info' on both channels 6 & 506?  Also, if you could PM me the serial number of the box so I can have someone check your account setup..

[TPK]

Very very strange.  I'll try to get some time this week to dig around at work for an answer for you...  Meanwhile, can you find out hat happens if you only check 720p and then try to select 'info' on both channels 6 & 506?  Also, if you could PM me the serial number of the box so I can have someone check your account setup..

.. Thank you, I just sent you a message ....

I tried setting the box for 720p only...

On all standard def channels (I think I tried it on 4, 6, 7, 12, and 311) the guide worked fine, even thou the output was 720p...

On alll hih-def channels (regardless of weather or not its natively a 720p or 1080i channel) with the output set to 720p the box had the freezing problem when I went to the guide...

So I set the box back...     Right now I have all formats enabled except for 480i...  Standard def channels come in at 1080i......

I just try to be careful not to hit the 'guide' when Im on those 3 channels, and I disable the 720p when I have people over who might want to use the remote