Fox6 close but no cigar

[Riktar]

I didn't want to muddy the Official Fox6 New Location Technical Report Thread  by posting a "question" in a "reply" thread so here goes:

 I am getting an intermitant signal that is stronger (5 bars) than CBS 58 (3 - 4 bars)according to my Samsung STB strength meter.  

 The Sammy is trying to fetch the signal according to the LED on the front which is changing from red to orange which indicates the receiver is trying to lock on to something.

 So I am wondering if the "blips" I am seeing are from Fox 6 or is it coming from something else?

 It seems others are running into this so if anybody comes up with a solution PLEASE post your solution ASAP.

 FYI I have a CM 4228 on the roof with a rotor so I have been playing around most of the morning trying to find the best direction to use.

[digdugm]

It was the signal. I read your post so i turned on 33 and I was getting Fox for about a half hour, but now its gone. I was getting it at 40 to44 %, not bad but still alittle choppy.

[Riktar]

Maybe Fox 6 will crank a little more juice into their signal. Or maybe once the leaves are off the trees.

DAG-NABBIT!!! :bang:  I am so freeking close to getting them it's just nuts!

[Racer47]

Do you have a pre-amp? If you're that close maybe a pre-amp would be enough so you don't loose any signal in the cable run. Are you using RG6? Is it a long run?

[Gregg Lengling]

A preamp may work way out in the fringe areas, especially where WISN-DT is weaker.  Those closer to town will only make matters worse with a preamp.  WITI on channel 33 running low power with WISN on channel 34 running 500,000 watts ERP just causes your receiver to limit, there is no way in hell a lot of us will ever receive WITI-DT until they get some decent ERP, at least no less than 3dB down from WISN-DT, in other words they're going to have to give us at least 250,000 ERP.  It might be doable with lower power but I don't think they have a high gain antenna, I think it's just the small one they had at their studios and the pattern is probably favoring the West.

[Riktar]

Originally posted by Racer47
Do you have a pre-amp? If you're that close maybe a pre-amp would be enough so you don't loose any signal in the cable run. Are you using RG6? Is it a long run?

Yes I don't recall the specific model but it's a Rat-Shack preamp type. Since I had to climb up on the 2 story roof of an 100 year ols farmhouse with a VERY steep roof I didn't want to find out after doing it once that I would have to climb back up again.

Yes I am using RG6.

The run is 50 feet.

[Racer47]

"WITI on channel 33 running low power with WISN on channel 34 running 500,000 watts ERP"

Gregg,

Why are there 3 digital channels all next to each other, 33, 34 and 35? Isn't the FCC supposed to allocate channels so this doesn't happen?


Riktar,

My only other suggestion would be to move the antenna around and look for a better location. I helped a guy with his Channel Master 8 bay and we moved it all over the roof to look for a better digital signal. After a couple hours, we discovered the best location was about 80 ft from the house. And that was only 5 ft above the ground. UHF can have strong and weak signal areas only 50 ft apart. UHF is also less sensitive to height. VHF on the other hand has much larger strong to weak signal areas (maybe several hundred feet). Plus VHF antennas also like the height, the higher the better in almost all cases.

[Riktar]

Originally posted by Racer47
Riktar,

My only other suggestion would be to move the antenna around and look for a better location.

That will most likely NOT be happening. I have noted that since I moved the antenna from the first floor roof to the second floor my reception has improved tremendously. Before I could not pull in Ch 58 (Digital) and now I can.
 The thought of spending several hours running all over the roof or the backyard sounds like more than I am willing to do. Unless I hear that EVERYBODY in this area is getting Fox 6 except me. So far there is only one other person close to me that is getting the signal.

 At one point I did consider mounting the antenna/rotor on top of a 40 foot silo that is close to my house. What closed down that idea wsa trying to figure out how I would get the cabling into the house. The shortest (Pronounced easiest) route would involve just over 250 feet of cable. And then I would be wondering how much signal loss I would incur from having the signal travel through that much cable.

[Gregg Lengling]

Originally posted by Racer47
"WITI on channel 33 running low power with WISN on channel 34 running 500,000 watts ERP"

Gregg,

Why are there 3 digital channels all next to each other, 33, 34 and 35? Isn't the FCC supposed to allocate channels so this doesn't happen?


.

While this was true with analog (NTSC) signals the FCC and the engineering showed that digital (ATSC) is much more robust and doesn't cause harmful interference to adjacent channel stations.  However they also did this study with all the stations running the same power/erp...which in this case doesn't cover it.  Most UHF stations are licensed for 1,000,000 watts ERP or more.  WISN-DT 34 has an STA to run about 1/2 power...which is acceptable.  WMVT-DT 35 is temporarily running lower power due to antenna problems (however it still is a good chunk of RF, not flea power), where as WITI-DT 33 is running next to nothing.  I'm not sure but I think they have an extremely low power transmitter (the area around 200 watts), and didn't invest in a high-gain antenna.  If you ever drove by their studios while the DT transmitter was there you would have seen the DT antenna which is probably on the order of maybe 40 feet tall or so, where as all the other stations have put up real antennas that have a length of up to 200 feet and weight up to 15 tons (yep 30,000 pounds).  The WITI-DT antenna could probably be carried by 2 men, talk about being frugal.  (BTW still no contact from FOX or FOX6, guess they don't care!).

[foxeng]

Originally posted by Gregg Lengling
I'm not sure but I think they have an extremely low power transmitter (the area around 200 watts), and didn't invest in a high-gain antenna.  

They have a 500 watt transmitter and a 12 gain antenna in a narrow cardiod pattern.

[Gregg Lengling]

So if you figure conservatively on coaxial cable loss, the system gain is probably around 6 dB which would give an ERP of 2KW and it's all pointed west using the cardiod pattern......just horrible.

[Gregg Lengling]

I just looked up the records and the antenna is about 800' above ground and the STA allows a WHOPPING 5.4kW...that's less than half the power that WDJT is running.  The Cardiod Pattern really shows you how bad it is up here in Cedarburg......disgusting.

[Gregg Lengling]

Oh and by the way don't forget that the actual licensed power for WITI-DT is 980 kilowatts ERP, thats 980,000.  A far cry from the 16,700 watts ERP they claim to be running right now.  Even if they could pump that much power into that antenna (which I'm sure they can't (it would be 122,500 watts to the antenna to reach 980,000 ERP), with their pattern on that antenna all the viewers in Eastern Ozaukee, Sheboygan, Racine and Kenosha counties will still have problems trying to receive them.

[foxeng]

The antenna is an Andrews ALP-12 low power antenna. It isn't the full power that they will be using. It was patterned for the studio location.

[Doug Mohr]

Originally posted by foxeng
The antenna is an Andrews ALP-12 low power antenna. It isn't the full power that they will be using. It was patterned for the studio location.

Thank you for the input. A lot of us following along silently appreciate all the information from all sides so we can better understand the situation.

Doug