Fascinating reading

[Todd Wiedemann]

Tech heads, check this out:

http://alvyray.com/DigitalTV/Naming_Proposal.htm

[Tom Sielicki]

The arguments are completely false.   1080i is really 1080p but only at 30 times a second which for the most part is fine considering 24 frames per second are used in real film.   Your tv can always cache one frame while the other frame is received and put out an entire 1080 line frame every 1/30 of a second.    In fact they should go 1620i and interlace every 3rd line of information and put it out 20 times a second with a very fine detail.

[Doug Mohr]

Originally posted by Todd Wiedemann
Tech heads, check this out:

http://alvyray.com/DigitalTV/Naming_Proposal.htm

Wow! He is really worked up about Progressive being better.

Does he have a Mac vs. PC section??  :rofl:

Doug

[smack]

Wow! He is really worked up about Progressive being better.

It is a better format and that article does a good job at explaining the differences though it is a bit biased towards 720p

1080i is really 1080p

Wow! Wow! Wow!.......Talk about needing a "no spin zone"

When you take a 1/60 sec screen shot on 720p you get 720 lines of resolution and at 1080i you get 540 lines (every other lineis drawn).  

1080i redraws only 1/2 the picture every 1/60 of a second so at 1/30 of a second you actually have two seperate pictures drawn (thus the term interlacing artifacts) and interlaced together.  With 720p you have two full pictures drawn every 1/60 second.

I don't want to get into the debate about interlacing artifacts vs. perceived resolution and such but 1080i is definately not even close to 1080p.

smack

[Matt Heebner]

Our 480P system looks good compared to 540I. 480 is just not that much less than 540. Yet Congressmen yell at the broadcasters, threatening their digital spectrum, when told of plans to broadcast 480P. I have seen 480P and it is wonderful. In fact, I have seen it side-by-side with 720P and 540I (well, 1080I, if you insist) systems, and 480P looks better!

Uhhh, this dude is either blind, or just stupid.
Now I agree that progressive scanning looks great, especially on fast moving sports on bandwidth starved stations on 720p native rate displays....but 1080i definitely has more detail. I have personally witnessed this at friends houses, but this idiot is saying that 480p is not only in the ballpark with HD, but BETTER ??:rolleyes:

1080i/p  is 2,073,600 pixals on screen.
720p/i is 921,600 pixals on screen
480i/p is 307,200 pixals on screen

Even on the cheapest HD display, if 480 looks as good or better than 720 or 1080...something is very wrong.

Oh, and I agree regarding 1080p...based on how much better progressive scanning is over interlaced, 1080p is going to be worlds better than anything out currently.

Matt

[smack]

1080i/p is 2,073,600 pixals on screen.

720p/i is 921,600 pixals on screen

But you also have to look at the time it took a 1080i set to draw a full picture (540i x 1920 1/60 a second) the 720p set has drawn 2 full pictures or 2*(720*1280)=1,843,200.  This is done in the same time it takes 1080i to draw one full picture.


Most people also do not realize that very very few 1080i sets even get the full 1080x1920.  It is usuaully closer to 960x1500.  I know the Mitsubishi tv's with the 9" guns can I believe do the full 1080i x 1920 but most of the other RPTV's  can't even project the full 1080 x 1920 resolution.

max

[Doug Mohr]

Originally posted by smack
I don't want to get into the debate about interlacing artifacts vs. perceived resolution and such but 1080i is definately not even close to 1080p.

smack

I don't either. I was just commenting on the grandstanding he was doing in the article.

:hug:

Doug

[Gregg Lengling]

Most people also do not realize that very very few 1080i sets even get the full 1080x1920.  It is usuaully closer to 960x1500.  I know the Mitsubishi tv's with the 9" guns can I believe do the full 1080i x 1920 but most of the other RPTV's  can't even project the full 1080 x 1920 resolution.

max [/B]

There are quite a few more RPTV that do it....my Hitachi is full does the full 1080x1920 as did my RCA.  One of the biggest reasons I continue to go with RPTV is due to the fact they have the highest resolution and being a SciFi fan they still have the blackest blacks.

[tazman]

Thank you Gregg

The way these these posts were heading I was afraid to step in.  You reiterated something that I had posted some time ago on another thread.  CRT RPTV's are the only sets for the time being that are capable of displaying 1080x1920.  DLP and LCD RPTV's are currnetly limited to 720x1280, because of the fact that current technology avialable limits the pixal density of the display chips used in those sets to 1.33 million pixals which only allows for  a 720x1280 pixal for pixal display.  Maybe the new LCoS TVs will level the playing field, but they will need chips with over 2 million displayable pixals.  So getting back on track here, unless you have a really sharp CRT RPTV, you are going to be hard pressed to see the difference between 720p and 1080i and yes 1080i , interlacing artifacts not withstanding will be sharper than 720p and I don't care what anyone says about 540 lines displayed twice 30 frames per second.  It is still 2 different sets of information 540 lines each to make one complete frame of 1080 total lines 30 times per second.  That is something that he lost sight of in that artical.  1080 lines of picture information is 1080 lines of picture information.  If he were promoting PROGRESSIVE versus INTERLACED based on their merits only, then I would agree with him

[Gregg Lengling]

I have my Sony boxes set for Variable DVI and what that means is the box will output on the DVI the native resolution of the transmission.  My Hitachi will display native 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i., so that being I'm always watching native resolution and don't have to worry about changing the output from the box.  It is almost impossible to notice the difference watching a movie in 720p vs 1080i even on the 65" screen, where the difference comes in is during sports (especially Football because that's the only sport I'm really interested in), where there is a lot of fast moving action, in that case 720p definitely outshines 1080i by the virtue of the technology you don't have any motion artifacts or noticeable dithering.  For the average viewer I doubt they will notice the difference especially those with slow display technology like LCD which is very poor at displaying fast action scenes.

[smack]

Greg,

The Hitachi 65swx20b is a 1080i display.

It is capable of handling different inputs ie: 480i, 480p, 540p, 720p & 1080i.  But when you see it on the screen it has been upconverted/cross converted or whatever you want to call it  to a 1080i format.   So you are not really seeing 720p on a 720p set, you are seeing a 720p signal crossconverted by the TV's internal scaler to 1080i.

smack