Fox 6 480i or 480p

[The Law]

Your TV may be selecting what it *thinks* is best.  I'm using the 3510HD and, yes, fox (and every thing else not HD) shows 480i.  However, If I remove all output formats and leave on 480p, well, it comes in on 480p.  My mits prolly upconverts to whatever it thinks is best when it negotiates the signal.

My output settings on the 3510:
480p
480i
1080i

My TV negotiates the following
All HD Channels:  1080i
Fox "HD":  480i
All other channels:  480i

Note, If I select 720p as an output option, I cannot view 512 (ABC HD) it won't negotiate properly - hence the ommission on my output.

[summerfun]

If I set my 3510 to output everything, this is what I get.

3510 settings all on:

480i - yes
480p - yes
720p - yes
1080i - yes

The TV will receive

All SD channels 480i
FOX HD channel 480i
ABC HD channel 720p
All other HD channels 1080i

If 3510 setting like this:

480i - no
480p - yes or no (doesn't matter)
720p - yes
1080i - yes

The TV will receive

All SD channels 1080i
Fox HD channel 1080i
ABC HD channel 720p
All other HD channels 1080i

The only way to get 480p is to turn off all other options. There would be no reason to do that. I have been leaving the 3510 on 1080i output only and everything goes to the TV at 1080i.

The whole point of my first post was to find out why I am receiving a 480i signal from FOX 6. They say they are sending a 480p to TWC and TWC says that they don't have the equipment to change the scan rate, so it must be the 3510 changing the rate. For what reason, I would not know. Maybe it is simply a bug in the firmware.

[summerfun]

Originally posted by gb4fan92
How/where is this information shown on your tv? I am looking to see if I can do this but no luck.

It depends on your TV. My Hitachi just shows it when you click on the info button. My Sony requires going into the service menu.

[StarvingForHDTV]

Yeah, I thought of that after I posted.  OTA the signal comes in as 480p.  The problem sounds like it's either with Time Warner Cable, or their customer's equipment.  I watch the signal OTA and convert it to 1080i for display.  I hope Fox-HD looks as good as ABC-HD.  

Do you know if Fox has plans to do any of 2004/2005 NFL games in HD?

Starving

Originally posted by foxeng
The Harmonic MV-400 encoder that WITI has doesn't do 480i, only 480p, 720p and 1080i. The 480i signal HAS to be converted to something else besides 480i for the enocder to work.

That is it.

[borghe]

yeah. the signal comes OTA at 480p over my bud's Sony box also.. it is sounding like a problem with the combo of TWC's box/settings and your tv/settings... unfortunately not familiar enough with either to offer anything... but if mhz40 is right about TWC not doing anything to the signal, you should be able to get it at 480p.

[summerfun]

Thanks everyone for all the help.

The conclusion is that Fox is broadcasting in 480p. Confirmed by Foxeng.

Fox is sending a 480p signal OTA. Confirmed by those with OTA receivers.

TWC is sending the 480p through the cable. Confirmed by mhz40 that TWC does not have the capability to convert the signal.

The box is set correctly and the TV has the ability to receive 480p. Confirmed by me.

So it must be a firmware bug in the Pioneer 3510 box that it does not send the 480p to the TV.

Still waiting on the HD/DVR box and this will hopefully become a non issue. The pioneer box will be retired.

[foxeng]

Originally posted by StarvingForHDTV
Do you know if Fox has plans to do any of 2004/2005 NFL games in HD?

It hasn't been announced yet (heck NOTHING has been announced) but from what I am hearing, the Super Bowl will be HD. The playoffs have a very high probablity of HD. As for the regular season, nothing has been said. There has been a rumor floating around the last couple of weeks that some big HD sports annoucement is due at any time, but I can't confirm or deny it by anyone so I don't know. A WAG would be that at least one would be and maybe two along the same lines as the widescreen games, but again, that is just me guessing and based on the last two years so if your Packers play well, there is a chance you will see them in HD.

[summerfun]

If they do not do the Super Bowl in HD after the whole world saw it this year in HD, I would almost think the NFL would have an argument to cancel the Fox agreement for negligence and give the game to someone else.

As fast as HD is growing, can you even guess how many people will have HDTV by next season. The numbers are growing exponentially.

Right now we are a small minority, just wait until more Packer fans have HD and they can't see their games in HD. I would get out of the way of that storm.

[foxeng]

Originally posted by summerfun
As fast as HD is growing, can you even guess how many people will have HDTV by next season. The numbers are growing exponentially.

I can't speak for Milwaukee, but in my market  (640,000 homes with other 1 million viewers) we estimated about 5000 "HD" homes (homes that could actually display 720p or 1080i either OTA or cable or sat) last year and now it is estimated around 10,000. That kind of growth can't be sustanted. At the low numbers, it is easy to double or even triple, but as the numbers get larger, it takes larger numbers to make those impressive percentages and I don't see it happening. In my market that means about 1 in 64 homes today, but that is under 2% and to jump to 4% will take a jump of another 10,000 this year and that will not happen. We might get another 5-7000 by years end. We only have 2 cablecos (out of 7) who offer HD and D* and E* and OTA, so the market isn't quite there yet for an "explosion" of set buying here. Having the Carolina Panthers in the playoffs and Super Bowl helped set sales here, but not stellar as can be seen with only a 5000 set increase year to year.

[StarvingForHDTV]

Thanks for the information.  I will keep my fingers crossed.  I'll also have to cross them that the Packers will be able to play good enough to make the cut....  If there are one or two games a week in HD.  I would think the Playoffs will be HD for sure.  For the Super Bowl, I would think definitely it will be HD.  Even if Fox didn't own the production equipment, maybe they could lease the equipment to do those big events in HD.  I'm not sure how all of that works.  Thank you for your time.

Starving

Originally posted by foxeng
It hasn't been announced yet (heck NOTHING has been announced) but from what I am hearing, the Super Bowl will be HD. The playoffs have a very high probablity of HD. As for the regular season, nothing has been said. There has been a rumor floating around the last couple of weeks that some big HD sports annoucement is due at any time, but I can't confirm or deny it by anyone so I don't know. A WAG would be that at least one would be and maybe two along the same lines as the widescreen games, but again, that is just me guessing and based on the last two years so if your Packers play well, there is a chance you will see them in HD.

[summerfun]

We are very luck here in Milwaukee. I can't tell you the numbers, but we are very much ahead of the curve from many other markets.

I know in my business travels, I hear of cities that the cable company does not have any HD service and many of the local stations have not converted to HD and so on. I do believe this is the turning year. The stores are stocked with HD sets and the cost has come down enough that the regular person can afford an HDTV.

[GBK]

maybe the growth isn't there because the HD isn't there.  If I go by the previous post.  We have a some stations and cable offering HD so our numbers maybe higher then anywhere else.   Where there maybe one or so.  Also.. it's a lot easier to watch tv when it's 20 below zero.. then when it's sunny and 85

[borghe]

hmm.. I don't know if I agree with you foxeng.. while it certainly won't sustain that kind of growth for an extended period of time, I honestly think HD viewing is going to grow even faster over the next couple of years.. with intel coming into the market later this year with $2000 LCOS sets, CRT RPTV sets for close to $1000, CRT direct view sets for under $1000, it will only catch on more and more.. and with hd tuners being pretty much a non-issue with cable and satellite (OTA on all boxes) offerings being dominant by far... I guess I just see the CEA's HDTV sales for the last few years and do in fact see exponential growth... and I do predict that it will happen like that over at least the next 2, maybe three years..

[summerfun]

If you look at HD sales as a bell curve, which most products follow pretty closely, we are at the very very front of that curve. We have a lot of exponential growth ahead of us before it levels out and then heads back down after the market is saturated.

[foxeng]

Originally posted by borghe
hmm.. I don't know if I agree with you foxeng.. while it certainly won't sustain that kind of growth for an extended period of time, I honestly think HD viewing is going to grow even faster over the next couple of years..

As I stated, I couldn't speak for Milwaukee and for your area, that may be a very true statement, but in my market, people are still loosing jobs every week. We have been hurt badly here and it is telling in lots of ways, including HD set sales.

Just last week, KKR can bought out Sealy Mattress. KKR is famous for busting up RJR/Nabisco and RJR is now on the verge of bankruptcy. Sealy will follow suite. Burlington Industries was based here in Greensboro, it is going under and has been merged with Cone Mills, the worlds largest denim manufacturer, who itself is going under.  Last December Pillowtex, the company that supplied most of K Mart's non Martha Stewart and WalMart's linens went under. 7000 jobs lost in this area alone due to Pillowtex.

HD TV sets are not really big on the want lists around here these days.

We may be in a recovery, but you can't it tell here.