Why is CBS WDJT bradcasting on 1.1?

[crumb snatcher]

Hello all.  I'm a newbie to this Milwaukee HDTV forum.  Didn't know such a site existed until a coworker told me about it.  

Forgive me if this issue has been asked previously or not.  Anyhow, I wanted to see if people have been complaining about local WDJT CBS's decision to broadcast their DT signal on 1.1 eventhough their transmit number is 46?  I am asking this because I can't watch channel 1.1 on my new Dish 811 receiver.  I recently purchased a Hitachi 50v500 before X-mas and finally decided to make the leap to satelite tv with this awesome deal that Dish offered.  I get their new 811 receiver which can decode HD Satelite signals as well as OTA local digital signals.  To my surprised, I couldn't watch the CBS DT channel on 1.1 because Dish has opted to program channel 1.1 and 1.2 for a couple of video inputs on the back of the receiver that would allow me to hook up a dvd player or vcr to the receiver and watch the signal through my program guide channel 1.1 and 1.2.  I have a Winegard Square SHooter antenna that is set up outside my house that can give me 80-90% signal strength.  All the other channels come in perfectly.  I'm able to lock in the CBS signal, but can't watch it.  When I called Dish, they told me that it's against FCC or some group's rules to broadcast on channel 1 and that is why Dish has programmed channel 1 for different usage on the receiver.  After much researching on the various satelite forums and AVS forums, everyone has told me the same thing.  Eventhough stations aren't suppose to broadcast on channel 1, a lot of stations still do it.  I've since found out that other Dish customers in other cities across the nation are experiencing the very same problems.  I have a 2nd OTA receiver from Zenith and was able to watch the super bowl channel 1 without any issues  because Zenith didn't program the channel 1 for another use like Dish did.  

My question is.....Have there been many complaints about this issue at all to WDJT?  Does WDJT have any intentions on doing anything about this issue?  I decided to go with Dish because of this dual purpose HD receiver only to find out that I now need a separate receiver just to watch local WDJT CBS?  WTF?  JIM HALL PLEASE RESPOND TO THIS!:guns:

[Gregg Lengling]

Well first off Dish is the actual culprit on this one....The ATSC code allows for channel 1 as remapping creates virtual channels.  Channel 58 use the remapping possibility to rename themselves channel 1 for a couple reasons.  Reason #1....It's the first channel you'll see on the guide.....
Reason #2....when all is done and said and the upper UHF stations are removed from TV service and put over to wireless service later this decade, 58 will no longer be a TV channel, so they would have to rebrand their channel to 46 (which is their current digital allocation).

I know this has been a real pain for Dish Customers but fortunately you have another box and saved your butt for the Super Bowl and one of Janet's bouncing twins.

Welcome to the forum and stay tuned there is a lot to be learned, even I learn from some of the newbies that do their research well.  

Also you could have found these answers already as this is not the first time this topic has come up on this board, just by using the search options available.  We've tried to put together a great forum for the SE Wisconsin viewers, and you'll notice there are only 2 other forums like this devoted to a single city/area.

[crumb snatcher]

I don't have the luxury of purchasing 2 separate receivers, one for Dish SD & HD and one for OTA HD.  I don't have that kind of money to burn just because Dish didn't program their receivers to use channel 1 and local WDJT CBS just has to be the first channel in the program guide.  This is bull crap!  Had I known this, I wouldn't have suscribed to Dish.  Are Direct Tv people experiencing this same issue with their receivers also?  Yeah, you can say that I should've done my research prior to signing up with Dish, but how would I have known to research such an issue if I didn't know it existed.  My second receiver was "borrowed" from the store just so I wouldn't miss the Super Bowl.  It's going to be returned because I can't afford to keep it.  WDJT doesn't care about people who can't watch their digital signal on 1.1 because if they did, they would have changed it by now since this is a "known" issue with Dish customers.  Obvisously Dish doesn't care about their customers either because they could simply issue a software update to remap their channel 1 for the use of watching OTA signals.   In the end, the consumer is the one who gets SCREWED in this whole ordeal and is forced to invest in 2 separate receivers or subjected to not being able to watch WDJT CBS on 1.1 because they can't afford another receiver.  I hope you're reading this Jim Hall!  Why couldn't this channel 1.1 mess involve a different station that I could care less about like the local WB!  :bang:

[Gregg Lengling]

No Directv customers don't have the problem... I've had 2 different Directv receivers the RCA DTC100 and now the Sony Sat 200HD and both of them work just fine.

[crumb snatcher]

So in a sense, DISH customers are essentially SOL?  Is that the correct understanding since either Dish or WDJT is willing to do anything about it for the consumer?  What can I do about this?  WHo can I complain to besides this forum?

[crashtap]

I have DTV, and have to use channel 1.1 to view 58 HD.  Fortunately, there are no DTV conflicts though, at least not yet.

[StarvingForHDTV]

I'm so glad I gave up on Dish when I did.  Hopefully this mess will be straightened out for the 811 owners.

Starving

[crumb snatcher]

I've seen that temporary fix, tried it and it doesn't work for me.  If only I had known about this issue with Dish, I would have opted for Direct TV instead.  WDJT has just lost another viewer due to this stupid decision on their part.  I could care less about their local programming because I can get the news from other stations.  It's the HD broadcast of primetime shows and sporting events that I don't want to miss out on.

[crumb snatcher]

just out of curiousity, are dish customers who own the 6000 model receiver experiencing the same issues with channel 1.1?  If not, maybe I can get Dish to give me that receiver instead.

[picopir8]

Why dont you just contact dish and tell them that they are not providing the serivce that was promised under your agreement.  Unless you received a 1.1 disclaimer from dish prior to signing a contract or handing over your cash, they are not providing the service that was promised to you.  Demand a resolution or a refund.

BTW, if Dish tells you that stations are not supposed to broadcast on channel 1 again, tell them that CBS is not.  They are on 46.  There is no FCC rules against mapping to channel 1, however, and Dish should have anticipated this.  It is their mistake, and they need to fix it.

[borghe]

yeah, I agree.. you really have to lay off CBS58 on this one.. they are within ATSC compliance, it is Dish who dropped the ball. It is Dish who is not in ATSC compliance. Call them. Complain to them. Tell them they aren't providing the service they promised. But you really have to stop ranting on 58. What they did is certainly unusual, but with only one STB not working with it out of probably over a hundred different ways to tune in OTA ATSC, it is certainly not "their fault". Yes it sucks to be in that position, but Dish should have been more forthright about their reciever being unable to tune into channel 1.

Call Dish and complain.

[SRW1000]

I think Crumb Snatcher is right.  It's a screw up  by Dish and a screw-over by 58.

Yes, digital transmissions allow stations to broadcast on virtual channels, but that channel number (referenced as the major channel) is supposed to be their NTSC channel number, not just any old number they can grab out of the air.  Otherwise, channel 58 could call themselves channel 6, since most of us can't get WITI anyway.

According to the PSIP guideline published by the ATSC:

The major channel number is used to group all channels that are to
be identified as belonging to a particular broadcaster (or particular identifying number such as 12
in this case). In the U.S., the NTSC RF channel is required to be used as a major channel number.

If anyone wants to read the whole document (it's pretty darn long), you can find it at:

Program and System Information Protocol Implementation Guidelines for Broadcasters

WDJT has decided to hijack channel 1-1 in an attempt to lure stupid viewers to their station.  If anything, this is going to annoy joe six-pack and/or his wife, because now they have to remember that 58 is really 1.

It's not a very smart strategy.

Scott

[RobbQ]

Originally posted by crumb snatcher
just out of curiousity, are dish customers who own the 6000 model receiver experiencing the same issues with channel 1.1?  If not, maybe I can get Dish to give me that receiver instead.

FYI, Dish 6000 works fine with channel 1.1

[crumb snatcher]

WOW, someone actually agrees with me on this issue?  Thanks for your post on this matter, SRW1000.  It's good to see a familiar face on this Milwaukee HDTV forum.  To this day, I have yet to successfully accomplish your temp fix on that channel 1.1 issue with the 811.  Maybe I'll just have to call you to come over and do it for me everytime I need to watch CBS.  Sounds like a plan since either Dish and WDJT will admitt to any wrong doing in this matter.

As far as this topic goes, I don't know who to believe.  Dish supporters are telling me one story and the WDJT 58 supporters on this forum are pointing the finger back at Dish.  Although it is probably fair to say that most WDJT58 supporters on this forum are Direct Tv customers who don't have that Channel 1.1 problem with their Sony, Zenith, Samsung, and LG receivers.  That is why I've been told to stop ranting on WDJT.  The only thing I've seen that is convincing is the posting by SRW1000.  I think it all comes down to an EGO issue with WDJT 58.  They just have to be the top dog on that program guide as 1.1.  :rolleyes:
Unfortunately, WDJT isn't the only station in the US that has this ego problem.  Where's the WDJT58 station manager's input on this?  I would certainly like to hear his $.02 on this topic.:confused:

[borghe]

SRW1000 - 58 has done nothing wrong.. as for them supposing to be mapped to "their analog channel number", you fail to mention that their analog channel number will be released once all frequencies above channel 55 are reclaimed for other uses later this decade. Channel 58 won't be an option within the decade. So they decided to move elsewhere... Now if you had a choice to move, anywhere to move, where would it be? Right at the top? Of course. Mark my words.. over the next 20 years you will likely see quite a few channels across the country pop up on channel 1, and why wouldn't they? It's right there..

The bottom line is that there is nothing 58 is doing that is out of compliance... nothing that is out of compliance that they can bring back into compliance... had Dish made a 100% ATSC compliant box, you wouldn't have a problem. So who is at fault? The company who is following the letter to the T or the one who shipped out a box that doesn't meet standards that have been around for the last 8 years? The truth is that had Dish shipped out a box that worked, your thoughts on 1.1 would be entirely different. That right there should tell you something. End of story.

P.S. it isn't a Dish problem.. it is an 811 problem. The 5000, 6000, and PVR921 all receive 1.1 without any problems... it is a non-compliance issue with the 811.... If you really want to keep Dish, then buy a used 6000 or upgrade to the PVR921. All other Dish HD STBs work fine with this except for the 811....