The Great Experiment Continues for we "pioneers"

[Joseph S]

 

ON WISCONSIN : LIVE : TV & RADIO :
Tim Cuprisin
E-MAIL  | ARCHIVE
ANOTHER DIGITAL DATE

Channel 12 officially launches its digital signal Sunday, relaying ABC's 13 hours a week of high-definition programming to the techno-pioneers who've invested in the next generation of television set.

Channel 12 will join four other Milwaukee broadcasters already transmitting some sort of digital signal: Channels 4, 6, 10 and 58.

The experimental broadcasts are the first step in the government-mandated transition to digital TV.

This is supposed to happen over the next four years, although consumers have been reluctant to spend big bucks on the expensive new technology. As more major network affiliates offer high-definition programs, it could finally start to spur consumers to make the investment.

Source:Tim Cuprisin http://www.jsonline.com/enter/tvradio/oct02/90087.asp

I never thought of these broadcasts as experimental in any way. Yes, in 1997-8 they were, but it was mandated on 5/1/02. The experimenting is long done.

Now that I've gone back to cable for HD HBO and Showtime, I can't say that HDTV was the "big bucks" investment it's made out to be in this article. $400 Decoder/Recorder Card vs. $80+ per month dig/HD  or $30 for basic cable. Quality of Audio and Picture make it a great investment and one that I've already paid for with 10mths of zero cable fees.

It's about time people start pointing out that the superior picture of HD over analog/digital cable is available at $0 monthly fee with the use of a cheap antenna. (Fox excluded)

The STBes have outs for every TV in use <25 years old and even the RF would be superior to the atrocious quality of analog cable stations that many subscribe to simply because their analog TV recepetion was poor. You don't need a $1600+ set to take advantage of this and the audio improvements are available to many others.

This is a choice many should be made aware of and could save them a great deal of money in the long run. Putting it out as only for pioneers is dead wrong at today's date.  

I wish js would provide the man with a set or STB so someday this point will finally be understood. I don't understand why a position that calls for reporting on TV doesn't provide the tools for viewing said programming.  

[Pat]

It certainly is odd.  It makes you wonder if he's being intellectually honest -- either with himself or with his readers.  Possibly he can't afford to own one, so he subconciuosly is saying "that's OK, I don't want one anyway."

Sometimes people make a decision and stick with it for years, even in the face of strong contrary evidence.  I suspect he's in that position.

[Gregg Lengling]

I just shipped this e-mail off to Mr. C.


"The experimental broadcasts are the first step in the government-mandated transition to digital TV."

I beg to differ, these are not experimental broadcasts...they are regular broadcasts.  Remember that May 1st, 2002 was the deadline for the Broadcasters to construct their DTV facilities, this is no longer the experimental time.

By the way did you know that even WVCY has a digital signal on the air testing as of yesterday?   They've beaten 18 and 24 on the air, I'd even say they beat WITI also seeing as WITI's signal is only receivable within about 4 to 5 miles of their studio tower...their supposed temporary location.


Gregg R. Lengling, W9DHI
Camel Communications, Inc. http://www.camelcomm.com
Politics is the art of appearing candid and completely open, while concealing as much as possible.   -States: The Bene Gesserit View
Contributor to:  http://www.milwaukeehdtv.org

[Gregg Lengling]

And the anticipated response....although I don't agree 100% with Mr. C., I will have to concede some of the points.

"Mr. Lengling:

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I know from your postings on the
hdtv.org forum that you're a strong backer of the technology. With your
careful monitoring of these early days of the new era of television,
you're among the pioneers helping the broadcasters work out the bugs in
digital TV.

But, of course, HDTV remains experimental. Here are five broad areas
that prove the point:

A.) Just read the multiple postings at hdtv.org, especially the
"technical issues" section, about the many technical problems plaguing
these early broadcasts by Milwaukee's TV stations. That's hardly a sign
of a mature technology. As I said, your forum and its contact with the
local broadcasters -- is helping them, and ultimately, the viewers --
reach the day when digital TV is accessible to the masses.

But technologically, digital TV remains its experimental stage.

B.) The reality is that digital TV is far from a commercial venture at
this time. Neither the networks nor the local affiliates yet have a
model for how they're going to use digital television to make money;
that is, what the mix of multi-casting and hi-def will be.

Commercial television is a business, and until the new technology starts
bringing in revenue, digital television will be experimental from the
business point of view.

C.) Even the artistic mechanics of how high-def programs will be
produced remains uncertain. Camera operators, directors, makeup artists,
set designers and the like who grew up in the old technology are still
writing the creative language of high-def production, that is, how and
when to cut and use techniques like close-ups and dissolves, etc., what
looks good and what doesn't That's not so much of an issue in programs
on film, like "The West Wing." But ultimately, sitcoms, newscasts and
other live or live-to-tape programming will have their own, distinct
hi-def style. We don't yet know what that style will be.

Until we do, it's still artistically experimental.

D.) Consumers can't walk into Best Buy, purchase a set, take it home,
plug it into their cable box or their satellite receiver and
automatically get high-def pictures without tons of work and headaches.

Until that day comes -- and I don't think it's very far off -- digital
TV will be experimental in the eyes of consumers.

E.) Finally, while the FCC set their May 1 deadline, the fact that they
didn't enforce it with fines is proof that even the federal government
-- which is pushing an unwilling broadcast industry and an uninterested
population toward digital TV -- recognizes the current experimental
nature of the transition to the new technology.

Thanks again for your e-mail, and I hope you continue to enjoy HDTV. The
time isn't too far off when the rest of the TV audience will be joining
you. But that time isn't here quite yet.

--Tim Cuprisin
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel"

[Tom Snyder]

 

It makes you wonder if he's being intellectually honest -- either with himself or with his readers.

Be careful... it's obviuous that although Mr. C isn't posting here, based on his comments to Gregg, he's at least lurking. Makes me a bit surprised that he's apparently a techno-pioneer in that other experimental technology: the Internet.

So, what do you think... is his VCR a VHS or a Beta?

Just kidding, Tim...  

[Tom Snyder]

 

The reality is that digital TV is far from a commercial venture at
this time. Neither the networks nor the local affiliates yet have a
model for how they're going to use digital television to make money;

Hey I've got one...

The stations will be losing their analog channel in a few years. Go digital or go out of business.  

[tenth_t2]

With all due respect to Tim's article, the only thing that bugs me is his use of the word experimental.  I think some of the FCC's recent acts of not granting waivers, extensions, mandating tuners by mid-2004 although 30" and up sucks    show's the resolve.  We're not going back.

He makes some good points in his response to Gregg-- challenges indeed.  And the fact that he may be lurking around here periodically probably does more good than harm I guess.

To the point about all of the dialog in the technical sections--  Well, Duh!  If we were dealing with normal broadcast power here I wouldn't have to engineer such a setup.  I just keep thinking back 25 years when the cable companies ripped up my yard to install a wire in the ground that I could watch TV with.  Let's lay down a wired infrastructure    These days, wireless is the future, whether it's phones, networks, video, etc.

In all my TV owning years, I've never given up the UHF/VFH antenna and the flexibility it gives me to receive television.  If a few more people took that same path, the transition to DTV would be a lot quicker, and there'd be a few more guys in the antenna install business.

Samsung sells a 27" HD monitor for $799 ($699 after rebate), and you CAN walk into Sears, or Flanners and buy one.  Buy a satellite setup for $400, and a small VHF/UHF antenna in an attic, and many people in metro areas are good to go.  Assuming stations transmit at full power....


Greg O.

[techguy1975]

I'd accept being called a "Pioneer" as a complment.  In the past, I've crisized people in this group for beating up on the local stations, I've come to understand your fustration, at least from a theorical prospective.  I myself, have not made the leap yet, had I, I would be bitching just as much as you.

People in this forum are adopting a brand new format, this is completly re-inventing TV as we know it.  This is the first *MAJOR* change in television since the first "Pioneer" stations signed on in the early 40's.  I dont consider the switch to color in the 60's a major change, it was pretty big, but, it didnt require a viewing nation to ditch their old sets, or purchase additional eqipment in order to still be able to view tv.

Is what Tim saying helping to delay people from switching?  I don't know, maybe, maybe not.  Keep in mind though, many people are afraid of change, also, as I've said before, times are hard, I cringe every time I get my 401k statement in the mail, I'm glad I personally dont have any money invested in the stock market.

Whats so bad about being refered too as "pioneers"? It simpy menas you are the first to do something.  The FCC only mandated broadcasters go digital, they did not say viewers had to as well.  We still have the ability to watch analog signals, and will still be able to do so for years to come.  Thosr who are at the forefront of this emerging technology are "Pioneers"

[kjnorman]

 

Quoted by Tim CuprisinD.) Consumers can't walk into Best Buy, purchase a set, take it home,
plug it into their cable box or their satellite receiver and
automatically get high-def pictures without tons of work and headaches.

Until that day comes -- and I don't think it's very far off -- digital
TV will be experimental in the eyes of consumers.

While I do find some of his comments valid, on this point I must say this it is possible to get HDTV fairly easily.

I "upgraded" my analog cable to digital.  The cable guy dropped of my cable box, I plugged it into the TV and hello there was HDTV (HBO).  

Okay, TW is currently lacking on local digital transmission, but before the end of the year WTMJ will be there.  Now WISN is up, who knows, perhaps they will be next?

Is it experimental?  Perhaps.  TWC is not relaying all the locals at present but it can only be a matter of time.

Perhaps only when TWC offers all the locals in HD, will Tim not consider the switch to digital experimental.

Kerry

[Matt Heebner]

I think Tim had some valid points in his brief, but informative blurb. I will say that the use of the word "experimental" is  just not the ideal choice.
He does sound a bit more positive in this blurb then when CBS took to the air, and I bet Jim Hall can't name us all now  

Matt

[tenth_t2]

Bravo Matt!

(wanna try Jim??   )

[Joseph S]

 

A.) Just read the multiple postings at hdtv.org, especially the
"technical issues" section, about the many technical problems plaguing
these early broadcasts by Milwaukee's TV stations.

The only problem is that a select few of the unprepared are broadcasting at very low power from a very low height. Those broadcasting at 10% power and normal height are able to do so successfully and reach a great many. I'd say the technology is not the fault here by any means while being a cheapskate owner is.

[drgingras]

I'm not a real editor, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn once...

"...the techno-pioneers who've invested in the next generation of television set."

pi·o·neer  
Pronunciation: "pI-&-'nir
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French pionier, from Old French peonier foot soldier, from peon foot soldier, from Medieval Latin pedon-, pedo
Date: 1523
1 : a member of a military unit usually of construction engineers
2 a : a person or group that originates or helps open up a new line of thought or activity or a new method or technical development b : one of the first to settle in a territory
3 : a plant or animal capable of establishing itself in a bare, barren, or open area and initiating an ecological cycle

Um, that would be the 1st generation manufacturers and those broadcasters that beat the early '02 on-air DTV deadline. Sorry Tim, but many of us "techno-pioneers" are already using 2nd and 3rd generation equipment.

"The experimental broadcasts are the first step in the government-mandated transition to digital TV."

ex·per·i·men·tal  
Pronunciation: ik-"sper-&-'men-t&l also -"spir-
Function: adjective
Date: 15th century
1 : of, relating to, or based on experience or experiment
2 a : serving the ends of or used as a means of experimentation b : relating to or having the characteristics of experiment : TENTATIVE- (still in the experimental stage)

Don't think this one works either. You make some good points, but, as Gregg pointed out, this is the real thing. Just growing slowly.

"As more major network affiliates offer high-definition programs, it could finally start to spur consumers to make the investment."

Good recovery, Tim - you're starting to catch on !  Glad to hear that you're visiting our site. If you hurry, you could become #200  

Props to Webster's for the use of their definitions.
Dave


------------------
I kinda thought that might happen ...

[This message has been edited by drgingras (edited 10-24-2002).]

[mcq]

 

Originally posted by techboywi:
I'd accept being called a "Pioneer" as a complment.  In the past, I've crisized people in this group for beating up on the local stations, I've come to understand your fustration, at least from a theorical prospective.  I myself, have not made the leap yet, had I, I would be bitching just as much as you.

It isn't the lack of programming as it is the empty promises. For example, WISN in THEIR press release said look for HDTV in the middle of October. OK, they are experimenting off and on, and according to "Crispy" are becoming official this Sunday. I know that it is merely a couple of weeks, but then don't make the committment. If WISN were honest they would have said something like "testing all of October with the hope of going live sometime soon thereafter." Does anyone remember how much testing WTMJ did before upconverting Prime Time?

Does anyone remember the time the public airwaves were for the benenfit of the public?

[mcq]

And the anticipated response....although I don't agree 100% with Mr. C., I will have to concede some of the points.

-->Don't give even an inch to this person. I would argue that he is unqualified and especially un-passionate (IS that a word??)to comment on the subject. Quite frankly, I rarely read the JS, but I suspect that someone who whould be qualified to write on a topic, such as TV, would have a passion or at least an avocation toward that industry. If this person were even the least bit sincere in his commentary he would embrace the industry and especially its cutting edge technology with an unbridled enthusiasm. This person barely acknowledges its exsistence. I would further posit that his commentary to date on the topic of HDTV is not only counter-productive, but damaging to the advancement of HDTV. Come on "Crispy" we commen folk (read sheep) look to our journalists to lead the charge against the establishment and the almighty dollar... Oh nevermind you work for one of them almighty dollar establishments.  

"Mr. Lengling:

"you're among the pioneers helping the broadcasters work out the bugs in
digital TV."

-->We are way too smart to succumb to your condescension.

"But, of course, HDTV remains experimental. Here are five broad areas
that prove the point:

A.) Just read the multiple postings at hdtv.org, especially the
"technical issues" section, about the many technical problems plaguing
these early broadcasts by Milwaukee's TV stations."

--> I thought I read these postings carefully. It seems to me the majority of the postings deal with the lack of broadcasts!? And the technical section deals primarily with persons inividual questions and concerns about their own equipment. And I see a lot about what antenna to use for pulling in the underpowered stations that even manage to get on the air.

"That's hardly a sign
of a mature technology."

--> There is a huge spectrum between experimental and mature. Please at least concede that we are beyond experimentation and into infancy.

"As I said, your forum and its contact with the local broadcasters -- is helping them, and ultimately, the viewers -- reach the day when digital TV is accessible to the masses."

-->More pandering, and anybody with an antenna can pick up digital broadcasts, isn't that mass enough.

"But technologically, digital TV remains its experimental stage."

--> I take issue with his use of the word experimental, I've been experimenting with HDTV for 2.5 years now. Hmmmm...my Intel 4 processor of 6 months would be..."on the drawing board??"

Oh by the way, I have had Digital TV (DirectTV) for nearly seven years. When exactly do we move from experimental to practical??


"B.) The reality is that digital TV is far from a commercial venture at
this time. Neither the networks nor the local affiliates yet have a
model for how they're going to use digital television to make money;
that is, what the mix of multi-casting and hi-def will be. "

--> Please sit down for this.... How about we have advertisements during the brodcasts called... commercials... crazy me!


"Commercial television is a business, and until the new technology starts
bringing in revenue, digital television will be experimental from the
business point of view."

--> Doesn't CBS have underwriting for some of its shows. Maybe "Crispy" doesn't see that we HDTV'ers get commercial free broadcasts. I feel lucky to be in this exclusive commercial-free club.


"C.) Even the artistic mechanics of how high-def programs will be
produced remains uncertain. Camera operators, directors, makeup artists,
set designers and the like who grew up in the old technology are still
writing the creative language of high-def production, that is, how and
when to cut and use techniques like close-ups and dissolves, etc., what
looks good and what doesn't That's not so much of an issue in programs
on film, like "The West Wing." But ultimately, sitcoms, newscasts and
other live or live-to-tape programming will have their own, distinct
hi-def style. We don't yet know what that style will be."

--> Obviously "Crispy" doesn't get a lot of HD-Net viewing in. Kinda seems like they've been making HDTV documentaries for-about-ever. I'll bet that travel guy would take issue with the above statment...He does a mighty fine job. And what about the World Report. Don't even get me started about Live Sports Broadcasts. Did anybody besides me see that CART race in Denver....WOW. HDTV was MADE for Sports!!!!!!!!!!!

"Until we do, it's still artistically experimental."

--> Tell that to the people who make shows for CBS. This "everybody" does not love Raymond... but he won the Emmy!?

D.) Consumers can't walk into Best Buy, purchase a set, take it home,
plug it into their cable box or their satellite receiver and
automatically get high-def pictures without tons of work and headaches.

--> This statement is completely idiotic. Maybe they just don't want to, because some moronic journalist keeps telling them that it's experimental.

I can tell you that as a computer consultant, it's a helluva lot harder for a consumer to buy, setup, use, and accept computer technology than any HDTV setup....Please give us sheep more credit than that.

"Until that day comes -- and I don't think it's very far off -- digital
TV will be experimental in the eyes of consumers."

-->I'm thinking it would be a lot easier to sell the sets if there was actually something to watch. And yes we are getting there and yes it would be nice to have an advocate with the audience as JS readers.


E.) Finally, while the FCC set their May 1 deadline, the fact that they
didn't enforce it with fines is proof that even the federal government
-- which is pushing an unwilling broadcast industry and an uninterested
population toward digital TV -- recognizes the current experimental
nature of the transition to the new technology.

--> What does that mean???   Speeding's OK, cause everybody does it, and unless you are really-really speeding you never get caught or fined?? What's the point of even passing a law at all?? How about them experimental speed limits? 55 is merely a suggestion, I guess.


"Thanks again for your e-mail, and I hope you continue to enjoy HDTV. The
time isn't too far off when the rest of the TV audience will be joining
you. But that time isn't here quite yet.

--Tim Cuprisin
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel"

-->Mr. Cuprisin, do us a favor...either resign or get into the 21st century. It is apparent that you are woefully underqualified to even comment on this "Experimental" technology called HDTV (Which you have confused with Digital Television.) I wish I could boycott your paper until you actually get an HDTV setup, but I converted to home-deliverd USAToday ages ago.

Patrick K. McHugh MCSE
mcq@ultraserv.net


[This message has been edited by mcq (edited 10-24-2002).]