Set the record straight? DVI, Fire Wire, S-VHS, Component?

[Dan]

I have been to a few forums on HDTV and I have not seen a clear post on the CONSEQUENCES of purchasing STB's and RPTV with or without the following inputs:

DVI(encrypted)
FIREWIRE
S-VHS
Component Video.

I presume most higher end models of RPTV's/STB have S-VHS and COmponent. The question becomes what are the consequences(PQ, Audio, etc) of using or not using the above outputs/inputs.

Example (1) Mitsubishi(a possible choice for RPTV for myself) does not support DVI but does support FIREWIRE.
The Zenith 520 box and SONY HD 200 box have DVI out , this is not relevant to MITS RPTV owners because they are relegated to Component or S-VHS since Firewire is not an option on the 3 latest generation STB's (samsung, zenith and Sony).
In order to acheive the best PQ on a Mits I will have to use the component connection fromt the STB to the RPTV.

Example 2: Hitachi(well documented on this forum) appears to be having serious compatibility issues with DVI interface on their flaghsip line(twx,swx,and xwx). Does this mean you do not buy the tv because you cannot use the DVI input and would have to use the component input on the RPTV? Is the PQ that much different from component and DVI.

Example 3: I want to record HD content to S-VHS or DVD-RW. Do I need DVI or Firewire input  on my TV.

Is obsolesence accelerated on an RPTV because it has a poorly functioning DVI input(HIT) or no DVI input(MITS).

If I am going to spend 4k to 5k for a MITS diamond series TV am I not taking a serious risk that FIREWIRE will not be the accepted interface in the future and DVI is. Thus I am relegated to watching HD content via Component.

Thanks in advance for clarification of these issues.

Dan

[Greg Oman]

Dan,

You're not alone in these choices, which really boil down to dvi vs firewire in my opinion.  Which will prevail is anyone's guess at this point.  Firewire seems better positioned at the moment for integration with a pc, and some camcorders are coming with firewire interfaces.  Mitsubishi and JVC d-vhs units come with firewire, and are compatible with i-Link commonly found on camcorders I think.  Ditto for the Philips DVD Recorder, firewire and iLink.

A year ago, I was trying to figure out the answer to the same question.  Already owning one Mits set already, I was somewhat biased towards them.  Although I took a hard look at the Toshiba sets- probably the second most likely candidate for us.  We looked at most everything, but it boiled down to us getting a set with an integrated tuner (even though there were reports of bugs, which we had).

Although I'd suggest you check with a knowledgeable salesperson on the details, I believe that the Mits digital promise may afford you some short term protection (probably only for the duration of the warranty), but I personally think Firewire will prevail.  This is my opinion, and really is based on my experience in the IT field.

Hope this helps a little, I really only spoke to #3.  Not paying much attention to the dvi issues of late, I don't know about that.

Greg O.

[Dan]

Greg , to reply to your post to my original topic of Firewire vs. DVI. I found this link. What do you think? I really want to get a Mits, the PQ for the $ is outstanding especially on HD , but this link and MIts procrastination on promise module scares the hell out of me.

Check out the link below re: Firewire VS. DVI. It was an eye opener.

www.intechlabs.com/ourfaqs/tv/firewire.htm

Dan:confused:

[Joseph S]

There's  a very good reason to have both USB2 and FW/FW2 on computers. It's the same reason it's good to have FW2 an DVI on a HDTV. We need to keep our options open. There are benefits to each and why should we not be able to take advantage of each. The added cost is next to nothing and they're not going to create imcompatabilities.

If you don't have a chance to get both in a set, get DVI if you have a Mac . (No Powerstrip, but the DVI solves that issue)

If you have a PC it's your choice and upgrade as needed. FW would be more beneficial now for DVHS.

[drgingras]

Dan, you may be interested in knowing that I received a postcard from Mits this week. The Promise Module is available.
My Sept '98 (yes, very first generation) 50803 is more than 3 years out of warrantee, yet they continue to offer upgradeability.

When the first generations were origionally manufactured, Mits guessed wrong on the industry standards for inputs (BNC/VGA vs. RCA/Component). They then manufactured and supplied a converter to those who wanted component inputs. Now, the Promise Module.

Yes, owners have to pay for these upgrades. Yes, they've taken a long time to become available. But what other manufacturer even attempts to make such a promise (pun intended)? To me, this says a lot for Mits.

Had I purchased any other brand, I'm sure I would be on my second HD-RPTV by now. Instead, I'm getting the full useful life out of the Mits, and putting my research, interests and money into an entirely new area - plasma.

My .02 - If you like and can afford the Mits., go for it. They actually seem to be serious about customer care and retention.

Dave

[gparris]

I also just got in the mail, a notice for my "promise module" for the Mits- for my recently-sold 60" 4:3 set. It was some upgrade!
It told me NOTHING about WHAT the upgraded promise module would "upgrade", except that I would be out of about ONE THOUSAND dollars- about a third of what my NEW set cost.
For me, if the new set gets fixed, (its 3 weeks old at my home and it has problems) I will consider its mere 16:9 , Firewired, intergrated-tunered, existance an "upgrade"  in itself!
Forget the promise module, unless DVI takes over the Firewire connections it DOES have-and Hollywood's paranoia over copying its precious movies takes over and we can't copy anything except SD showings....!

[Dan]

Mits gets great Kudos for PQ in HD but gets ripped for SD. How are the stretch modes on your unit(assuming it is working properly)? I am close on a ws 65711 diamond and need a little nudging, but the rap on SD on a Mits has me skittish

Dan

[gparris]

Stretch modes are great-but remember that these are for 480i only. On 1080i and progressive-scan DVD 480p component inputs, you have only the standard full screen and the narrow 4:3 cropped. The standard mode is excellent without any distortion and that is what I keep it on except for when 2.35:1 letterboxing occurs like with Sci-Fi channel shows. Then I hit the Format button only once to fill in the 480i range of the screen. This eliminates the bars and still have geometery in place. Expand is good only if you have want a clear stable geometry in the middle of the screen and stretched sides:  I do not like it. Standard should do the job. Just remember a DVD  in 480p will still have the bars (small ones) top and bottom, for the 2.35:1 films with this set, unless your DVD player can zoom for you. My Kenwood Faroudja system does not. Hope that this helps you.
If this DVI thing takes off, Mits will provide you with a "promise module" if the built in Firewire/5C does not prove adequate to keep Hollywood happy. I only hope it will be cheaper than the module price I got in the mail for my older 2000 model Mits-$1000!
Thats why I said to buy the Hitachi 65XWX20B -it has both and an upgrade card - and a screen shield already on - so messing with it being damaged like mine was because it was not in place at the time of shipment will not be an issue for you.
Enjoy your Mits-good luck to you! Flanners is a good store.

[oz]

That's what I don't get. One part of  Mitsubishi's "promise" was that the module was suppose to be "affordable." To me, $1000 is not affordable when the whole TV was $2300.  I guess I'll just keep my TV the way it is and save my grand, even if that means it's not a "true" HDTV like the postcard said.

[Matt Heebner]

Although I agree that the Promise Module does seem a little high in price, it also adds more than just a digital connection. The PM has an OTA tuner (with firewire support) and a QAM (I think thats the cable standard) tuner so that TWC customers can basically plug a cable into the back and have HD without a cable box. Also the PM adds Netcommand, which Perfect Vision magazine voted as Best Innovation of the Year.
People may not have much use for a digital connection right now, but I will guarentee that when more and more all digital connection components start becoming available, like HD Tivo and HD DVD, that many people will be thankful they only have to spend $1000 to have compatibility than to have to go and buy a whole new TV. Only Mits is supporting their older HD sets...so if you own a older Toshiba you're outta luck, same with Hitachi, Sony, etc.

I am not going to be buying one anytime soon, but eventually I don't think we (all legacy analog HDTV set owners) will have a choice if we want to co-exist with emerging technology.

Yea, new TV's are only about $1000 to $1200 more than the PM, but to me thats still pretty damn significant!

 Dan...get the Mits! You will not be sorry, and like I said before in another post somewhere....I have yet to see better PQ on anything (other than front projectors) than on a  calibrated Mits.



Matt

[Matt Heebner]

:mad: Oh man, I just went to the above link regarding DVI/Firewire...who are these people??? They sound like a bunch of Hollywood  henchmen.

FIRST....DVI is not the future of digital connections....only Hollywood wants it that way. Firewire is actually been approved standard as the means to carry digital information . DVI will only survive IF consumers make it so....think DIVX! This is nothing more than the whole Betamax/Sony/Hollywood story all over again.  

SECOND...Just because a TV has a DVI connection in NO WAY assures that future revision is going to be compatible with older connections. There is already like three different types of DVI standards floating around out there, and I am not sure if any are compatible with each other.

Now I am not saying that there won't be a place for a DVI-type standard, but since Firewire already has a copy-protection standard (5C) and the ability to communicate bi-directionaly, it puts the DVI standard to shame. All Hollywood wants to do is enact PLAY FOR PAY.:mad: :mad:

Here are some links for some more "enlightened"  reading.

Firewire vs. DVI

Firewire For Future CE Use

DVI NOT for consumer use!

Matt

[Greg Oman]

Dan-- I agree with Matt, that link info seems a bit colored in my opinion as well.  Firewire will be around for some time, contrary to what people may think as it's an extremely viable interface that traverses both video and computer platforms.  To me DVI is kinda like divx.  'nuff said.

About the stretch modes in SD, I personally do prefer them to watching non stretched when sourced from 480i-- simply from the aspect of it uses the entire screen.  Maybe it's just me, but I set my DirectTV receiver to 16:9 and I think that watching that source with my mode set to standard is fine.  I do think the local channel reception distorts the ends of the screen when received via antenna, but I rarely watch analog OTA, the pass through on DirectTV is better than what I get from my attic antenna.

As I said before, I'm somewhat biased towards the Mits sets even with their shortcomings.  However, I would offer my brother in law as fair game.  He bought a Sony projection set after I bought my first Mits 5 years ago.  This time around, he bought a Mits HD set.  Of course, both times he went bigger...:mad:

Greg O.

[drgingras]

Truely a fine line between making a purchase based on an informed decision and getting stuck sitting on the fence. Been there and done that in both instances.
While we all would prefer the former, the wealth of opinions available via the internet tend to force the latter.

The Beta/VHS thing...
To Divx or not...
Vinyl, 8-track, cassette...
All past tense now, including personal experiences.

With all consumer electronics,we've constantly dealt with industry in-fighting and planned obsolescence. Combining the Information Age with the Digital Age just makes the decision process that much more involved.

I use both firewire and DVI in my PC's. DVI works very well in feeding my plasma and LCD displays. Firewire handles my two-way data transfer very efficiently. After reading all the articles I could find, I still think firewire is best suited for viewing AND archiving. So that's the way I go. For now.

For me, it's the Promise Module now and the DishPVR when available. Both firewire. Sorry, Hollywood, I'm leaving the DVI to the computer display. Just have to wait and see which side of the fence I've landed on this time!

I wonder whatever happened to that 8-track collection of mine?
Have to think about that while watching Leno in HD tonight.  

Dave

[Dan]

I am going to look at a Diamond 65-711 Friday night and do a second look at the HIT65XWX.. I do agree PQ in HD should be the deciding factor as more content becomes available in HD this year. Both units have Firewire so that is not the issue. I am looking at a floor model 65711 in Chicago for $4000. I realize floor models are a risk but I will check the Manuf date via the SN#.
The store offers a warranty through phillips that should cover any issues. They claim(it is a boutique HT store) they do not run their floor units in Torch Mode. We will See. I do not think  I can get the Daimond cheaper new.

Thanks

Dan

I will post as to what I decide:)